Wiring options for led switchback side marker

ladysi

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Alright, so I have these sitting around at home:

P.RA Compatible with 2016-2017 Honda Civic Smoked LED Front Side Marker Light - LED Turn Signal Housing Parking Light Replacement Lamp https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07641GFZ4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_n7aaDb5VT1RDQ
Honda Civic 10th gen Wiring options for led switchback side marker Screenshot_20190611-153105_Amazon Shoppin


I also have a pair of these sitting around from my led reflector side by side review:

https://corsomotion.com/collections...cts/led-reflector-control-module-modules-pair
Honda Civic 10th gen Wiring options for led switchback side marker CM-MOD-REF-V1_grande


Now, considering the vague MN law below, I am not sure if white side markers are legal, usually any light visible from the side needs to be amber, but the law is written in a vague way as it assumes front markers are front facing. I have been looking for directional restrictions of light colors in the MN code but have not found any yet....

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/2011/cite/169.51

(b) Every such vehicle having a width, including load thereon, at any part in excess of 80 inches shall be equipped with four clearance lamps, two located on the front at opposite sides and not more than six inches from the extreme outer edge of the vehicle or load, displaying a white or amber light visible from a distance of 500 feet to the front of the vehicle, and two located on the rear on opposite sides not more than six inches from the extreme outer edge of the vehicle or load, displaying a red light visible from a distance of 500 feet to the rear of the vehicle. The front clearance lamps shall be located at a height of not less than 24 inches above the headlamp centers. The rear clearance lamps shall be in addition to the red rear lamp hereinbefore required.​

And it sounds like federal law requires amber side markers:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Side_marker_lights_and_reflectors

So, I figure my options are:

1. OEM: Swap the white and amber wires in the marker so that the amber light is on solid as per OEM behavior.

2. Default Switchback: wire up the white wire to the OEM plug and run the amber wire to a t-tap on the headlight flasher. This will be white solid with switchback amber turn signals. Unsure about the legality of this in MN.

3. Amber Only Switchback: this is more complicated as it will use the corsomotion reflector modules. I would wire up the markers amber wire to the control module, run the flasher wire from the module to the t-tap on the headlight flasher wire, and run the running light control module wire to the marker plug. This would always run amber solid, and flash amber for turn signals.

4. Brake + Amber Only Switchback: this would include all the functions and behaviors of #3 above, but also include a brighter amber for when the brakes are engaged. I figure I would need to find a brake circuit under the dash or in the engine compartment fuse box and wire that to the control module brake wire.

5. The Full Monty Amber + White Switchback: this would include everything from #3 and #4 above, but also use the markers white led wire for parking and reverse lights. This would require finding both the parking and reverse circuits under the dash or in the engine compartment and wiring them to a switching circuit and then finally to the white led reflector wire.

  • Any input or thoughts about these options?
  • Anyone have law enforcement issues with running white side markers?
  • Finally, anyone know where I can find the extra circuits, preferably in the engine bay or under the dash if necessary? (brake, parking, reverse)

Cheers.
 
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Vic_L

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Alright, so I have these sitting around at home:

** Snip **
Not as vague regulations, but people in my area were unclear on which set of laws to follow --- side-marker lamp laws and/or side reflector laws.
(Damn, no hide/show spoiler option for this forum).

Side-marker lamps
4.12 (1) A vehicle may be equipped with
(a) 2 side-marker lamps, mounted on each side of the vehicle near the front, that are capable of displaying only white or amber light, and
(b) 2 side-marker lamps, mounted on each side of the vehicle near the rear, that are capable of displaying only amber or red light.
(2) The side-marker lamps referred to in subsection (1) may operate in conjunction with turn signal lamps or the hazard warning signal.
(3) A vehicle with an overall width of 2.05 m or more, or having a gross weight in excess of 1 400 kg, may be equipped with side-marker lamps mounted on each side of the vehicle at the horizontal mid-point of the vehicle.

Reflective devices

4.21 (1) A vehicle must be equipped with at least one red reflector at the rear of the vehicle, either separate or incorporated into a tail lamp, that is mounted at a height of not less than 38 cm and not more than 1.83 m.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a vehicle manufactured before January 1, 1958.
(3) Only amber reflectors may be mounted on the front or side of a vehicle.
(4) Only red reflectors may be mounted on the rear of a vehicle or on the side of the vehicle at or toward the rear of the vehicle.
(5) A vehicle with an overall width of 2.05 m or more, or a trailer or semitrailer having a gross weight in excess of 1 400 kg, must be equipped with at least
(a) 2 amber reflectors mounted on the side of the vehicle, trailer or semitrailer near the front,
(b) 2 amber reflectors mounted on the side of the vehicle, trailer or semitrailer near the rear, and
(c) 2 red reflectors mounted on the rear of the vehicle, trailer or semitrailer.
(6) A trailer or semitrailer must be equipped with at least one red reflector on the rear of the vehicle at each side.
(7) A pole trailer must be equipped with at least
(a) one amber reflector on each side of the vehicle at the front and the horizontal mid-point, and
(b) one red reflector on the rear of the vehicle or load at each side.
(8) A commercial trailer with a width of more than 2.05 m and a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4 536 kg must be equipped with reflective markings on the rear and side of the vehicle to meet the approved standards established by the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) and the applicable SAE standards
(a) on and after January 1, 2000 if the vehicle was manufactured on or after December 1, 1993, and
(b) on and after January 1, 2002 if the vehicle was manufactured before December 1, 1993.
(9) Despite subsections (1) to (7), reflective markings may replace red or amber reflectors on the side or rear of a vehicle.

Clearance lamps

4.22 (1) A commercial vehicle may be equipped with 2 amber clearance lamps mounted on the front of the vehicle, near or at the top of the vehicle, in such a manner as to indicate the overall width of the vehicle.
(2) A truck tractor must be equipped with amber clearance lamps mounted on the front of the vehicle.
(3) During the time specified in section 4.01, a vehicle with an overall width of 2.05 m or more, or a trailer or semitrailer having a gross weight in excess of 1 400 kg, must illuminate
(a) a clearance lamp,
(i) mounted on the front at each side of the vehicle, that is capable of displaying only amber light visible from a distance of 150 m to the front, or
(ii) mounted on the front of the vehicle, that is capable of displaying amber, green or white light, but only if the vehicle was manufactured before January 1, 1959, and
(b) a clearance lamp, mounted on the rear at each side of the vehicle, that is capable of displaying only red light visible from a distance of 150 m to the rear.
(4) Subsection (3) does not apply to a pole trailer.
(5) Clearance lamps on vehicles manufactured after December 31, 1993 must be mounted near or at the top of the vehicle in such a manner as to indicate the overall width of the vehicle.


Anyways, I personally bit the bullet, and went with the standalone switchback route (e.g. white during normal driving, and flashing amber when signaling).
More specifically, got them through ProCivic, here: https://www.procivic.com/p/ym/2018/civic/jdm-style-corner-&-bumper-lights.html

Installed them ~2 weeks ago (but bought them back in December 2018 ? o_O)
Drove by and beside a couple of patrol officers...and no problems yet.

I am not sure about the extra circuit modifications needed (e.g. brake/reverse/parking), since I only went with the Option #2 installation.
Pretty simple to install, probably under 10 minutes per side (took me a while because the included quick splice was a bit annoying, and fishing/routing the wiring around to keep it nice and tidy).

Here's a short clip of the end result:
https://i.imgur.com/IYbXULN.mp4
 
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tdurham19

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two located on the front at opposite sides and not more than six inches from the extreme outer edge of the vehicle or load, displaying a white or amber light
Assuming you got that law from a legit source it looks like the state law is pretty clear cut white or amber lights. Federal law rely shouldn’t be a concern because there will be no one enforcing the federal law... that is more for auto manufacturers to follow. The officers that stop you will be enforcing your state traffic laws.

I have those same switchbacks and I wired them up with the quick connects connected to the blinkers. They run constant with white light and when the blinkers turn on the yellow light up.
 
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ladysi

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Assuming you got that law from a legit source it looks like the state law is pretty clear cut white or amber lights. Federal law rely shouldn’t be a concern because there will be no one enforcing the federal law... that is more for auto manufacturers to follow. The officers that stop you will be enforcing your state traffic laws.

I have those same switchbacks and I wired them up with the quick connects connected to the blinkers. They run constant with white light and when the blinkers turn on the yellow light up.
The vagueness is "on the front" and "on the rear". But yes, it seems permissive and I agree with your assessment of the lack of federal law enforcement for markers.

It is definitely easiest to just wire em up per design, that is the direction I am leaning. I wonder if running white carries any real risk of increasing the danger in the event of a potential accident....
 
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ladysi

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@tdurham19 Damn, I dug some more and found this:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/169.55

169.55 LIGHTS ON ALL VEHICLES.
Subdivision 1.Lights or reflectors required.

At the times when lighted lamps on vehicles are required each vehicle including an animal-drawn vehicle and any vehicle specifically excepted in sections 169.47 to 169.79, with respect to equipment and not hereinbefore specifically required to be equipped with lamps, shall be equipped with one or more lighted lamps or lanterns projecting a white light visible from a distance of 500 feet to the front of the vehicle and with a lamp or lantern exhibiting a red light visible from a distance of 500 feet to the rear, except that reflectors meeting the maximum requirements of this chapter may be used in lieu of the lights required in this subdivision. It shall be unlawful except as otherwise provided in this subdivision, to project a white light to the rear of any such vehicle while traveling on any street or highway, unless such vehicle is moving in reverse. A lighting device mounted on top of a vehicle engaged in deliveries to residences may project a white light to the rear if the sign projects one or more additional colors to the rear. An authorized emergency vehicle may display an oscillating, alternating, or rotating white light used in connection with an oscillating, alternating, or rotating red light when responding to emergency calls​

Unless you are perfectly behind the car, you will see the side marker. This, plus the earlier quote and the headlight section, imply white/amber only visible from front, and red/amber only visible from the back. Now will a cop ticket me for that, and cite the right statute? I dunno.
 


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...
...
I wonder if running white carries any real risk of increasing the danger in the event of a potential accident....
What kind sort of risk of danger are you thinking?

I mean, if you were to get into an accident, the markers would still indicate the side/edge of your car, even if illuminating white. If you turn on your hazards it will flash amber, like normal.

Anyways, here is a quick install video/guide...for reference.




@tdurham19 Damn, I dug some more and found this:

Unless you are perfectly behind the car, you will see the side marker. This, plus the earlier quote and the headlight section, imply white/amber only visible from front, and red/amber only visible from the back. Now will a cop ticket me for that, and cite the right statute? I dunno.
What it is referring to are the rear tailights, where it SHOULD be red anyways.
 
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What kind sort of risk of danger are you thinking?

I mean, if you were to get into an accident, the markers would still indicate the side/edge of your car, even if illuminating white. If you turn on your hazards it will flash amber, like normal.

Anyways, here is a quick install video/guide...for reference.

Basically, as the standard is amber side markers and in a tense, split second moment, will someone misinterpret the situation due to the color of my markers?

Thanks for the link, nice to always see someone else do it first, then I just need to think about wire prep and other anal tendencies.
 
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ladysi

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@Vic_L I just watched the vid. I am going to put 1/8" loom around the blinker wire, and use a water resistant t-tap and wrap it in vulcanized tape.

Though I am still considering that new revelation about the MN statutes.
 

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@tdurham19 Damn, I dug some more and found this:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/169.55

169.55 LIGHTS ON ALL VEHICLES.
Subdivision 1.Lights or reflectors required.

At the times when lighted lamps on vehicles are required each vehicle including an animal-drawn vehicle and any vehicle specifically excepted in sections 169.47 to 169.79, with respect to equipment and not hereinbefore specifically required to be equipped with lamps, shall be equipped with one or more lighted lamps or lanterns projecting a white light visible from a distance of 500 feet to the front of the vehicle and with a lamp or lantern exhibiting a red light visible from a distance of 500 feet to the rear, except that reflectors meeting the maximum requirements of this chapter may be used in lieu of the lights required in this subdivision. It shall be unlawful except as otherwise provided in this subdivision, to project a white light to the rear of any such vehicle while traveling on any street or highway, unless such vehicle is moving in reverse. A lighting device mounted on top of a vehicle engaged in deliveries to residences may project a white light to the rear if the sign projects one or more additional colors to the rear. An authorized emergency vehicle may display an oscillating, alternating, or rotating white light used in connection with an oscillating, alternating, or rotating red light when responding to emergency calls​

Unless you are perfectly behind the car, you will see the side marker. This, plus the earlier quote and the headlight section, imply white/amber only visible from front, and red/amber only visible from the back. Now will a cop ticket me for that, and cite the right statute? I dunno.
Honestly a cop could ticket you for pretty much any modification you do to your car... however, no cop is going to ticket you for doing this mod. I have these side markers and there is no white light visible from the rear. And I think these will make your car more visible to fellow motorists which will help avoid accidents
 
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ladysi

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Honestly a cop could ticket you for pretty much any modification you do to your car... however, no cop is going to ticket you for doing this mod. I have these side markers and there is no white light visible from the rear. And I think these will make your car more visible to fellow motorists which will help avoid accidents
Fair. And it is easy. I am running out of car mod time, once my sailboat is in the water my priorities shift. Car time will be reserved for rainy days when I can squat in a friend's garage. I still have some other mods to finish up. You have convinced me, changed my mind even, Δ (delta) @ @tdurham19

This is easy, if tomorrow is nice I will do it while my chili simmers.
 


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Fair. And it is easy. I am running out of car mod time, once my sailboat is in the water my priorities shift. Car time will be reserved for rainy days when I can squat in a friend's garage. I still have some other mods to finish up. You have convinced me, changed my mind even, Δ (delta) @ @tdurham19

This is easy, if tomorrow is nice I will do it while my chili simmers.
Good to hear, good luck with the install! It takes no time at all. Post some pics when you’re done :thumbsup:
 

Vic_L

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Fair. And it is easy. I am running out of car mod time, once my sailboat is in the water my priorities shift. Car time will be reserved for rainy days when I can squat in a friend's garage. I still have some other mods to finish up. You have convinced me, changed my mind even, Δ (delta) @ @tdurham19

This is easy, if tomorrow is nice I will do it while my chili simmers.
Sailboat eh?
Very nice!

I wouldn't worry too much about getting pulled over, and slapped with a ticket.

Standing by the rear passenger door, about 4~5 feet away:
Honda Civic 10th gen Wiring options for led switchback side marker IMG_20190611_222549


By the rear taillights, at a slight angle:
Honda Civic 10th gen Wiring options for led switchback side marker IMG_20190611_222352


Behind the taillights...you can barely see it:
Honda Civic 10th gen Wiring options for led switchback side marker IMG_20190611_222457


P.S. Send some of that chili over through e-mail please! :D
 
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ladysi

ladysi

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Good to hear, good luck with the install! It takes no time at all. Post some pics when you’re done :thumbsup:
Most definitely. I am so close to glamour shots day...just another few nights of work on her.

Sailboat eh?
Very nice!
Yeah, 1978 Mirage 26, Bob Perry design. Needed work....and a month later she is almost done....
I wouldn't worry too much about getting pulled over, and slapped with a ticket.

Standing by the rear passenger door, about 4~5 feet away:
IMG_20190611_222549.jpg


By the rear taillights, at a slight angle:
IMG_20190611_222352.jpg


Behind the taillights...you can barely see it:
IMG_20190611_222457.jpg


P.S. Send some of that chili over through e-mail please! :D
Nice, thank you for the pics, you all really have convinced me thoroughly.
 
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ladysi

ladysi

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Honestly a cop could ticket you for pretty much any modification you do to your car... however, no cop is going to ticket you for doing this mod. I have these side markers and there is no white light visible from the rear. And I think these will make your car more visible to fellow motorists which will help avoid accidents
I was thinking last night about the visibility argument... I think you are right. It is like 3rd brake light flashers, different enough that other drivers take notice, making you more visible and less likely to get hit. Also, the yellow flasher will stand out even more against the usual white running light, demanding attention.
 

Vic_L

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Yeah, 1978 Mirage 26, Bob Perry design. Needed work....and a month later she is almost done....
Oh cool! Mirage 26-footer
Have you done much sailing before? Coastal / Inshore … Offshore? :)
Getting off topic now haha

Anyways, share pictures once you get those side markers installed!
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