Why doesn't this car get as much respect as it should for handling.

jabberwocker

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I understand that we're on a Civic forum so the type R is king. But, with the LSD in this thing is there anything close to the R that handles this well in this price range. I know there is the miata and the brz on the rear wheel front. But, having had a si for a coupe months now I'm amazed how this forum is always about more speed. But this car is made for a mix and handling. The gen X SI is a great blend of both that seems like have been made to be this way. Maybe I am missing something but it seems to be overlooked here by most.
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I agree with geeeek above there. There's so much headroom for EZ power gains so that's easier to talk about. Handling is already pretty perfect on this platform (after new tires)
 

herox

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I understand that we're on a Civic forum so the type R is king. But, with the LSD in this thing is there anything close to the R that handles this well in this price range. I know there is the miata and the brz on the rear wheel front. But, having had a si for a coupe months now I'm amazed how this forum is always about more speed. But this car is made for a mix and handling. The gen X SI is a great blend of both that seems like have been made to be this way. Maybe I am missing something but it seems to be overlooked here by most.
It's easier to focus on numbers, and the Si only makes 205 hp.
 

CanadiaegeanBlue

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Simply put, it's the hype that's driven the demand for all the power mods. I see countless full-bolt on Si's yet wheel, tires, brakes, and suspension are still stock. I am a proponent of adding power obly if you are supporting it with the aforementioned upgrades to retain balance, and I've made my fair share of mistakes + trial and error to learn that.

It has to start with better tires, no question - sub 20lbs wheels too if you have the budget. Then it's all seat time, and one of the best places for this Si is at AutoX events, where you will always find 1-2 other 10th Gen Si's because those owners also figured out these cars are nimble, and geared perfectly for that use. After seat time, you start seeing where you can improve yourself and the car.

For street use, an exhaust and a better feeling shifter, rear sway bar, and/or better steering wheel. For track use, you start looking into more robust suspension/chassis upgrades, braking modifications beyond pads and fluid, dedicated wheel and tire set, and not more power but better cooling!

My journey with the Si has been incredible! Although I would have liked to install and experience each part slower, I have modded rather quickly over the last 1.5 years because I have a parts store so I need to test and install parts. My next obsession as I'm pretty maxed out on what I can do with suspension will be adding lighter weight components for better weight balance, so that means a CF hood + lighter battery. Nothing however is added to the car that isn't carefully planned, and from research tells me that it won't work in conjunction with other parts, or possibly create imbalance.

I'll leave this quote here by Gordon Murray, designer of the iconic McLaren F1, and the upcoming Gordon Murray Design T50 that will flip the supercar world on it's head!

"As a designer, i've fought weight all my life. The only thing that counts against you every second the car is moving is weight. Doesn't matter whether you're cornering, accelerating, braking, steering, whatever you're doing that counts against you... the one thing you can't change is the laws of physics no matter how clever you are. You can disguise weight but you cannot change the laws of physics. You'll never get transient handling with a heavy car that feels like a light car."
 


circuit.heart

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The vast majority of Honda enthusiasts in the USA are amateur drag racers, that's just going to be how it is for what you hear talked about. Most of this country doesn't have much in the way of driving roads, it's not going to develop the culture around driving roads and road courses.

You spend enough time around UK/European and Japanese 10th gen owners, they will rave about how the car drives on the road and how well-composed it stays when flung around corners.
 

gtman

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I guess I don't understand why the minimal discussion here on Si handling is an issue. It's expected. Fact is, the handling of this car that has gotten near universal praise, both from owners and pro car reviewers. Throw on better tires and beef up the rear sway bar and how much more do you really need? Only the hardcore guys need go beyond that. The lowering spring discussion here tends to be more about looks.

As far as why power discussions seem to take up 75% of postings, that's a no-brainer too. As outstanding as the chassis and handling of the Si is, power is slightly deficient. In dyno tests I've seen, the base 1.5 non-Si isn't all that far behind the Si version. So, most Si guys want more power because 1) it's a blast and 2) the chassis can handle it. I think a bit more power balances out the car even further. Not massive power increases, just the power of a base/OTS tune. Add those better tires I mentioned earlier and you've got a much improved machine.

And a tune isn't just about increased power/boost. Whether it's removing rev hang, reducing lag, improving throttle response or even having better than stock VSA, tuning is a great tool for better day to day driveabilty.

I don't think the Si's handling is overlooked. It's just that it's so good out of the box, very little needs to be changed.
 
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I test drove an Si, I settled with an LX 6MT. The Si's engine is retarded. The LSD is amazing. Why the @#$! did Honda put the same 1.5L in an SI?? why?? Sub 3000 RPM blows for daily driving while the turbo spools. wtf. /rant over
 

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I test drove an Si, I settled with an LX 6MT. The Si's engine is retarded. The LSD is amazing. Why the @#$! did Honda put the same 1.5L in an SI?? why?? Sub 3000 RPM blows for daily driving while the turbo spools. wtf. /rant over
Can't say I agree with you there

I think this car is probably the most fun daily driver that's out there. 1.5 gives us great fuel economy and the small turbo spools quick and allows us to hit boost fairly quick. The torque in the car makes it fun to drive in any driving scenario. I drive in heavy nyc traffic daily and the torque on the car allows me to maneuver quick when needed and allows for good power through the low-medium powerband, also the lighter clutch doesn't kill my leg in traffic

Compared to the 8th/9th gen although there is great power on the top end, the low-medium end was lacking and you never really felt like the full potential of the car was being used until you hit high rpms.

If you had the choice between the Si and the LX 6mt, then imo you downgraded because the Si is better in almost every way
 

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I understand that we're on a Civic forum so the type R is king. But, with the LSD in this thing is there anything close to the R that handles this well in this price range. I know there is the miata and the brz on the rear wheel front. But, having had a si for a coupe months now I'm amazed how this forum is always about more speed. But this car is made for a mix and handling. The gen X SI is a great blend of both that seems like have been made to be this way. Maybe I am missing something but it seems to be overlooked here by most.
Agreed with this completely, Si is sooooooooooo damn good in terms of handling. I don't think it's overlooked though, but there are a decent amount of people that go for straight power and try ti milk out as much as they can out of the 1.5 which is totally fine. I think that's just civic culture hahah

Crazy how great the car feels when you throw on lowering springs, sway bars, strut bar, and new tires. The car gives me a lot of confidence in turns and you can comfortably WOT through some turns and know that you'll be planted, the LSD makes the worlds of a difference
 


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I got the summer tires as an option. I don’t track the car. It pulled a .97 on the skidpad on instrumented tests... which is pretty outstanding. Brakes well. Compared to some of its competition, and the last 2 generations of Si... its power stock is nothing special. For the first time... we get a turbo motor that it’s cheap and easy to just do a reflash and gain 50 whp. So... we do. That was no small reason why I dumped my ‘15 Si with its “big” K24Z7. That motor made substantially less power than this motor and staying all-motor still had relatively low headroom compared to some earlier K motors.

Driving aggressively on the street, I cannot make the car exhibit understeer like I could my RSX. I don’t think the car needs improvement for how I drive it out-the-box. I bought it new so I’m not having to replace worn struts/shocks/bushings. All these cars will have their suspension get tired and dedicated 1st owners and people who buy them used will start replacing parts in tired cars I’m the coming years. At <3 years old and under 30k miles... I’m not there yet.

I think it’s a product of a good car out the box that’s still, for most people, too new to need it yet on the suspension front and too cheap and easy not to want to bump the power on the engine front.
 

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I came from the world of EG civics/Del Sols and the first thing I always addressed was handling because it was the cost efficient way to go fast in those and get a noticeable difference in driving feel. This car handles nearly as good as anything I've driven outside of my AP1 s2000 with coilovers and my del sol with coilovers, wider wheels/tires and an ITR rear sway bar. I don't think the handling gets overlooked, like everyone else has said its just that good out of the box. Now the cost effective way to change your driving feel is to reflash/tune and do some simple shifter upgrades. I did my TSP tune last week, I have my acuity shifter bushings and centering spring in already and I have a Sirimoto short shift adapter and bushing coming this weekend and I think once I install that this car will be an all around incredible daily driver without touching the suspension. I opted for all these other mods over getting a set of lowering springs and so far I am 100% happy with my decisions. Kudos to Honda for giving this car such a great suspension set up for the price.
 

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I test drove an Si, I settled with an LX 6MT. The Si's engine is retarded. The LSD is amazing. Why the @#$! did Honda put the same 1.5L in an SI?? why?? Sub 3000 RPM blows for daily driving while the turbo spools. wtf. /rant over
So drive the thing around 3000 rpm. That’s what i do. The rev match downshift from 4th to third 3000to 4000 turns some heads haha.

The rev hang on the 1 to 2 shift is brutal though. Especially when the person behind you takes off quickly anticipating you to keep accelerating and they damn near rear end you while you shift.
 

izzyC-EX

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I understand the hesitation of the FWD platform. I bought this car not expecting much in the handling department. Had M2's, M3's before. But I was pleasantly surprised how good this car is. This is literally a planted point and shoot car. Very little push (understeer) if any. This is as exciting as RWD cars I've had in curving roads with out the scare of my rear loosing it.
 

longthaitran91

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I understand the hesitation of the FWD platform. I bought this car not expecting much in the handling department. Had M2's, M3's before. But I was pleasantly surprised how good this car is. This is literally a planted point and shoot car. Very little push (understeer) if any. This is as exciting as RWD cars I've had in curving roads with out the scare of my rear loosing it.
I learned the si seems to be tuned to have a bit more oversteer assuming you upgraded the tires. The stock tires understeers in a dangerous way. Getting a good set of max summer performance or equivalent will cause oversteer in a controllable manner. Anyone noticed that too? It probably only applies if the suspension is still stock.
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