Why doesn’t the Civic Type R have torque steer? (Engineering Explained)

[jonnys_honda]

I don't think he actually says word for word what you quote. Quotations are different from paraphrasing so if you are doing the latter, don't use quotation marks.

A direct quote from the video is: "The goal is to get it basically at zero or close to zero, a small amount can be helpful in emergency situations like this" And by small about he means negative scrub, not positive scrub (negative scrub on a CTR would be ET greater than 60!)

I'd agree that in most cars zero-scrub isn't the most important thing and a few mm positive or negative could be fine. I have non-zero scrub on my WRX and my GT4. However, for a very powerful FWD car, zero-scrub becomes much more important because torque steer is stronger for more powerful FWD cars. Personally, I'm not interested in wheels that have an ET less than 55 mm for the type R. (which would keep the scrub radius less than 5 mm)

I quoted his YouTube caption in the “read more” section under his video.

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[yargk]

I quoted his YouTube caption in the “read more” section under his video.

Ah, cool.

 

[CTR1633FK2]

There's a difference between an EPS system filtering some intermittent forces (bumps) and counteracting something continuous like torque steer. Let's think about another continuous force, which is the "centering force" that brings the car back to straight driving. Turn into a turn at constant speed (constant speed is so that you don't induce torque steer because that's not what we are focusing on now), then let go of the steering wheel, you'll notice that you'll slowly stop turning and the steering wheel will slowly unwind by itself. This is due to the caster angle of the front wheels. It induces a continuous force that brings you back to straight ahead driving. If an EPS system counteracted continuous forces then you'd just keep turning right (or left) unless you physically pulled the steering wheel straight.

This is when the torque sensor in the steering column comes into play. If you let go the steering wheel, the sensor will not sense a torque and the motor will not counteract. In some systems the motor will actually help to center the steering wheel, because the centering force from the wheels are not high enough to push the EPS motor.

 

[wowwitsgau]

I don't think he actually says word for word what you quote. Quotations are different from paraphrasing so if you are doing the latter, don't use quotation marks.
(edit: This was quoted from the description of the video, oops, but I think this description simplifies the matter a bit too much. I think the quote pulled below from the video is more useful)

A direct quote from the video is: "The goal is to get it basically at zero or close to zero, a small amount can be helpful in emergency situations like this" And by small about he means negative scrub, not positive scrub (negative scrub on a CTR would be ET greater than 60!)

I'd agree that in most cars zero-scrub isn't the most important thing and a few mm positive or negative could be fine. I have non-zero scrub on my WRX and my GT4. However, for a very powerful FWD car, zero-scrub becomes much more important because torque steer is stronger for more powerful FWD cars. Personally, I'm not interested in wheels that have an ET less than 55 mm for the type R. (which would keep the scrub radius less than 5 mm)

I think the reason why people are having no issues with more torque steer while using offsets less than 60 is because this causes a positive scrub condition. From that video, it seems that torque steer is mainly caused by negative scrub (ie toe out on accel).

 

[yargk]

I think the reason why people are having no issues with more torque steer while using offsets less than 60 is because this causes a positive scrub condition. From that video, it seems that torque steer is mainly caused by negative scrub (ie toe out on accel).

Any non-zero scrub radius produces torque steer (meaning any wheel that is not ET60). I honestly think most people don't experience torque steer just because they just can't tell (good for them!) A couple members of the board say that it's much more noticeable in the rain. Anyway, it would be interesting to see a video of someone accelerate hard from a stop with no steering inputs and ET 35 wheels.

 

[Vortexhunter]

Any non-zero scrub radius produces torque steer. I honestly think most people don't experience torque steer just because they just can't tell (good for them!) A couple members of the board say that it's much more noticeable in the rain. Anyway, it would be interesting to see a video of someone accelerate hard from a stop with no steering inputs and ET 35 wheels.

Or even +45! @jonnys_honda can you do that?

 

[baldheadracing]

IIRC, there wasn't a difference from a standing start - I presume due to the electric power steering control program. I had to be driving at speed, say 50mph+, to notice the difference (between ET42/45 and ET60).

 

[yargk]

Interesting.

 

[MonkeyConQueso]

There's a portion of the highway on the way to work that if I start to accelerate any harder than "Sunday driving", it'll start pulling hard in alternating directions. Testing it in other uneven road locations, it doesn't happen nearly as bad. I think this area is worse because: Grooved pavement on left side, uneven height between L&R, and uneven/bumpy pavement under right side only. Traction has no idea where to go, and accelerating hard causes the car to shimmy and weave - it's a little unsettling but at least I know the area and how to deal now.

 

[Dragnet]

There's a portion of the highway on the way to work that if I start to accelerate any harder than "Sunday driving", it'll start pulling hard in alternating directions. Testing it in other uneven road locations, it doesn't happen nearly as bad. I think this area is worse because: Grooved pavement on left side, uneven height between L&R, and uneven/bumpy pavement under right side only. Traction has no idea where to go, and accelerating hard causes the car to shimmy and weave - it's a little unsettling but at least I know the area and how to deal now.

Mine will do that ever so slightly from time to time. But still not bad considering my manual 97 accord had way more torque steer than my type r.

 

[erbee]

Low offset wheels and crappy road the wheel will yank a bit more .

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