Why all the complaining about 20 inch wheels?

[MisterC]

Nah, not anymore, the type R at least at mid ohio with two people up front eats the front left tire alive. I'm sick of buying $300 tires, and I was a big believer in honda designing the front end for the wheels, but after 3 runs around mid ohio and 3 winters on 18s, and snows no less, the additional torque steer is not super pronounced.

Car feels great with the 20s, and if you're worried about bumps go for a 35 series, but I'll tell you the 245/30s and 245/35s in 20 both really get chewed up on a track day. So much so it's prompted me to switch.

Honestly since I'll have the apex wheels and stock 20s at the same time for my next session in august, maybe I'll try them back to back.

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[Byron Sexton]

This is a daily driver for me, Im not tracking it and i like the 20's...I dont believe they would eat up a set of 245/35's that quickly right?

 

[MisterC]

This is a daily driver for me, Im not tracking it and i like the 20's...I dont believe they would eat up a set of 245/35's that quickly right?

If you aren't hitting the track and don't mind replacing maybe 1 wheel/tire every couple seasons it'll be fine imo, Cleveland has some pretty beat roads and once I went to 35 things were a lot more comfortable.

 

[Doublestack00]

Seems like 19s are the sweet spot, slightly taller tire and you don't give up as much as you do going to an 18.

 

[Zeffy94]

Seems like 19s are the sweet spot, slightly taller tire and you don't give up as much as you do going to an 18.

19 tire prices are roughly similar to the 20s though. The tires on 18s are significantly cheaper than tires for the 20s.

 

[Doublestack00]

19 tire prices are roughly similar to the 20s though. The tires on 18s are significantly cheaper than tires for the 20s.

For sure, but at a cost of loosing some the sharpness and handling.

 

[EdG]

ARe you worried about the scrub radius and or handling issues?

I have 18 inch diameter 9.5 inch wide rims with +45 offset. My tires are PS4 265/40/18. Many people who regularly track their cars use 265s so they have more contact and hence grip than 245s. They typically can significantly reduce weight of the wheels. I changed partly for tire costs and it is my daily driver and am on some bad roads. Bent wheels are a real issue.

I have gone back to stock wheels and tires and do some spirited driving to compare. I definitely feel much less torque steer on stock tires. However, I think I feel better drip with the 265s but I don't have any track data to back that up. I don't think the torque steer is a huge issue. You only feel it under very hard acceleration and it is not a huge deal compensating for it.

The biggest problem with after market wheels is the +60 offset of the OEMs. So few wheels have such an extreme offset that after market options are limited. I am sure Honda did it improve scrub angle. I assume they couldn't do it another way. I think I have seen threads trying to get a rim manufacturer of making 18 inch wheels with +60 offsets if they can get enough pre-orders but I don't think that happened.

 

[CTSteve]

Using my 2018 CTR only as a daily driver I have participated in several of these dislike-of-the-OEM-20”- inch-wheels threads over the past couple of years.

The issues seem to come down to the following:

• What is it that you like about the car and how do you intend to drive it?
• What is the condition of the roads in the area where you normally drive, how much do you drive, and how do you drive? I .e., how much wear do you put on the tires by your driving style and the amount that you drive, and what is the likelihood of damage? These are significant performance and cost issues.
• Are you doing track days or autocross or just using the car as a daily driver? This is obviously a major consideration that conditions the entire situation and should not be mixed with meeting daily driving standards.
• How do you feel about degrading the designed daily handling performance of the car versus what Honda intended when they engineered the relatively heavy 20-inch wheel/low-profile tire combination?
• I traded a 2015 SI on my CTR. The characteristic I disliked the most about it was torque steer. Coming off the line it was almost impossible to control, the OEM CTR suspension, wheel, and tire combination just about completely eliminates that, something I would not want to lose, and there is also that glued to the road feeling of the Contact 6s.
• Are you willing to accept somewhat reduced daily driving handling in return for lower cost on tires and a lower likelihood of damage from road conditions?
• How do you want to spend your money?

The situation:

• I use the CTR, my only car, as a daily driver. I drive only about 6000 miles a year and am a very experienced driver. I intend to keep the CTR while it and I survive. It is the best all-around driver’s car that I have ever driven. Given the price-performance ratio, it’s an absolute steal.
• The roads where I live are generally in excellent condition, untreated potholes are relatively rare and I drive familiar roads most of the time, so I know which ones are likely to be problematical and which are not.
• I drive in a relatively spirited way, but gave up the whole concept of street racing or full out performance driving on public roads many years ago primarily because of my concern for others, who are not expecting you to be coming in the opposite direction or from behind at 80 miles an hour on a curvy country road and really don’t know how to deal with it, to say nothing of vehicles entering from driveways and side roads. That does not diminish the pleasure of driving this automobile at all; its handling characteristics at all speeds and under all conditions are nonpareil.
• I have lost one of my winter tires in swerving to avoid a person who did not single for a left turn, so forced to the right onto the shoulder at about 35-40 mph on an unfamiliar road in a state other than mine. There was a pothole. The wheel was not damaged. I drove on the tire for the rest of the winter season and did not discover the damage until I tried to have the winter tires remounted the next fall and the service manager told me that, the right front, couldn’t be remounted because there was a slice in the side wall. So, road damage, and had to replace it at my own expense.
• The damage issue is not a problem with the wheels but with the low-profile the tires. Under severe impact the tires collapse enough that they don’t protect the wheel. It’s not so much that the wheels are more prone to damage as that the tires do not protect them in the way that a higher profile would. Any design incorporates compromises. How you want to do that is a matter of how you want to deal with the consequences of altering wheel diameter, weight, and offset, and tire profile, which may be more complex than they look. Inflation is also important, a monthly check that the tire pressures are up to factory spec. 35F, 33R, is essential. It seems that there is always a differential. You can feel the handling difference when you bring them back into balance.
• In the rare conditions when I am ‘challenged’ by others who would just love to try to beat a Type R, I just smile and ignore them. The fact of having one of the best performing cars in the world at the price does not mean that you have to go fast against others on the street; it’s just the idea that you could if you wanted to, and they know that as well as you do. Straight line drag racing, who needs it? Doesn’t prove much and doesn’t happen that often which says something in itself.
• The weather conditions where I am requires seasonal tires. For me most convenient way to do that is to also have two sets of wheels; it just simplifies the whole seasonal situation.

Wheels:

• I bought a set of used OEM wheels from someone who was abandoning them and going to some other configuration, which is entirely their choice. You can do that today for less than $1000, including a partially worn set of OEM tires. That is a huge deal.
• At those prices I am considering buying a third set as backup. It appears worth it even if you have to pay the shipping. One of the issues of course is that a lot of these sales are from areas other than where I live and many of the sellers are not willing to even consider the bother of shipping.

Winter tires:

• All-season tires make no sense; based on the feedback on these forums, they appear to have the poor handling characteristics of any compromise solution.
• For winter tires in the OEM size the choice is limited and expensive.
• I chose the Pirelli Sottozero. They are a great winter tire, as they should be.
• As I read the reviews there doesn’t seem to be anything much better than the Pirelli’s in the winter tire market.
• The main difference I feel in handling when the winter tires are on the car is a sort of squirmy feeling, which I would guess is a combination of the difference in the compound and the more aggressive tread pattern giving less physical contact with the pavement. There’s nothing dangerous or uncomfortable about it, just different, and I’m always anticipating the spring when I can put the summer tires back on and get back to what the handling performances is supposed to feel like.

Summer tires:

• Alternating between the two sets of seasonal tires and with the relatively low mileage that I drive, I’m expecting that I’ll probably get about four seasons out of each set, and then I’ll be up against $12-$1400 to replace each of them. Just need to plan for it. If I get four years out the two sets of tires, and the replacement cost for both sets is about $3000, then the cost per month for tires will have been about $60 per month. More than I spend for gas. So, you can offset of get that against the cost of completely replacing the wheels and tires for different sizes, which in the end may involve the same or more cost. You must pay to play, you either can and want to do it or you don’t.
• I have been told that the Michelin 4S is a viable alternative to the Continentals, with much better wear, and I will consider that when I need to replace the summer tires.

 

[Zeffy94]

• All-season tires make no sense; based on the feedback on these forums, they appear to have the poor handling characteristics of any compromise solution.

I am running all seasons; I completely disagree with your assessment of poor handling. I have taken my CTR on curves carrying significant amount of speed and using the g-force meter in the car I've hit .97g of lateral grip before the tires start squealing. These corners are taken at speeds that are plenty fast for street usage.

I live in SE PA where the temps get freezing cold but we don't have much snow to contend with lately. Therefore, a set of winter tires is a complete waste; I have used all seasons instead and I'm finding these are very capable despite what this forum likes to think.

Sure, if you live in an area where snow is actually a threat, I would say winter tires are a good idea. If however you are in an area where the temp is too cold for summer tires but snow is a very low threat, I say UHP all seasons work just fine.

 

[Volksparts]

I've been running a 265 35 18s for the last 9 months and I have to say the ride is a lot smoother. I feel like it handles a lot better because of the wider traction. And the tires are cheaper if I needed to replace them. I haven't had any negatives with this setup whatsoever. So I feel that I made the right choice.

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