Which car wins on the track... CTR or C63 S?

Rmbrady

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Lightning Lap isn't perfect, but it's by far the best grouping of historical data for track performance that is available. Lightning Lap

2019 AMG C63s coupe - 2:57.1
2018 Civic Type R - 3:03.9

So on a long track, it's not even close (nor should it be based on price difference)
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Nightshifter

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Lightning Lap isn't perfect, but it's by far the best grouping of historical data for track performance that is available. Lightning Lap

2019 AMG C63s coupe - 2:57.1
2018 Civic Type R - 3:03.9

So on a long track, it's not even close (nor should it be based on price difference)
Yes... the weakness (being both cars are stock) is the R will no way catch this car in the straights and perpetually keep falling behind some... hence (driver factor aside) C63 S wins. But... if we get a modified R that can achieve the same acceleration or better stats wise than C63 S, i think the R should be able to keep the C63S in the rear view mirror overall. On paper, stock, the R has slightly better #'s for handling and braking potentially. I'm speaking in regards to each cars ultimate potential when taken to the limit by the best of the best drivers.
 
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Nightshifter

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Correction on the AMG C63 S price... dealer wants 15k over MSRP do to the chip shortage caused by the Pandemic. So you're looking. 76k + 15k & TTT not to mention maintenance plans because this car is known to have issues after the 1st year. Don't forget folks, CTRs were already in demand and price jacked before the pandemic. Tell u the truth, I think the CTR is worth every penny even if you payed over MSRP :)
 
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StanMan

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Lightning Lap isn't perfect, but it's by far the best grouping of historical data for track performance that is available. Lightning Lap

2019 AMG C63s coupe - 2:57.1
2018 Civic Type R - 3:03.9

So on a long track, it's not even close (nor should it be based on price difference)
A good source of info for performance for this track but I wouldn't really use this as a general metric of "this car is faster overall than this other car".

This track massively leans on straight line performance with handling mattering little. It has Challengers and the like ahead of the Type R. A Hellcat would be demolished by the Type R on something like the Nurburgring- and I suspect the AMG C63S would be as well.

Honda Civic 10th gen Which car wins on the track... CTR or C63 S? 1632095976402
 
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Nightshifter

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That sure don't look like Gopher Canyon to me =). Exactly StanMan... good post!
 


Rmbrady

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A good source of info for performance for this track but I wouldn't really use this as a general metric of "this car is faster overall than this other car".

This track massively leans on straight line performance with handling mattering little. It has Challengers and the like ahead of the Type R. A Hellcat would be demolished by the Type R on something like the Nurburgring- and I suspect the AMG C63S would be as well.

1632095976402.png
I think there are certainly tracks where the Type R might be very close or beat the AMG, but not sure if the Ring would be one of them, the Ring is a very high speed track like the VIR layout above.

Comparing a modded Type R would certainly allow for the possibility that it could beat an AMG on a track, but it's worth noting the AMG can get over 100HP and TQ from just a tune.

I cant wait to hit the track in two weeks to see my Type R compares to my previous cars.
 
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Nightshifter

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Then again... BMW M8 Competition going to beat all the cars we're talking about here right now... 2022 M3, AMG C63 S or C8 Corvette.... potentially that is(driver not included). Got the lateral g's and braking pretty close to the CTR but 0 - 60 in 2.5 sec =))
 

Dave B

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The C63 S is the top line AMG version. Quick glance at the specs and it looks on paper like it's close to an M3. This video shows the Type R vs the new M3 (and the A45 AMG that we don't get in NA). The M3 has the fastest time at 43.9, the Type R did a 45.6. The M3 probably handles better than the C63, so it might be very closer for a CTR vs C63 battle and would probably come down to the track setup. Car and Driver might have VIR lap times that could paint a better picture, but that track does favor straight line performance.

Spend some money on better tires and wheels and the CTR will easily beat the Mercedes in this test. Stock Continentals aren't going to make the grade. BTW, in the test the driver mentions how he has done a number of warm up laps in the CTR, i.e. enough to have the engine cut power from higher temps.

If you want a car that is fast in a straight line, buy a Mustang or Camaro.

If you really want a fast track only car, buy a used Formula Atlantic or ARCA stock car.

The CTR is an excellent car for the money and is very capable even if it isn't as fast in a straight line as a number of others.
 

FifStreet

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Let me see if I have this correct... You tailgate a random person who is driving a C63, they flip you off. so you then drive to a MB dealership and challenge the sales people to a race? lol.

Now you want to theory-race the cars here? Just get the race set up and let us know what happens.
 
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Nightshifter

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Let me see if I have this correct... You tailgate a random person who is driving a C63, they flip you off. so you then drive to a MB dealership and challenge the sales people to a race? lol.

Now you want to theory-race the cars here? Just get the race set up and let us know what happens.
Opinions vary...
 


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Great conversations had here, good reads.

I just think it’s cute that the CTR gets compared to cars that cost 2-3x what it costs. Yeah you can quibble that another car is a few seconds faster but what Honda did to a little Civic is so cool!

It’s like as if I got in a fist fight with Chuck Liddell and almost won. It’s a win in my book.
 

gbhstrat

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As a HPDE driving instructor these "what car is faster" scenarios drive me crazy. On most tracks that have a mix of straight line sections, fast corners and slow corners its knowledge of the track and driver skill that make the biggest difference. I have owned and tracked a lot of cars. Two Porsches (fully track prepped), two STIs, A Focus SVT, Audi S4 and a 2016 M3 (comp pkg). My son has a 2020 CTR that I drive on the track and I also have a buddy with a 2020 Shelby GT500 with the comp package that I get to drive frequently at the track. My two tracks are the Ridge and Pacific Raceway in Washington state. The biggest surprise with new students is the track is a great equalizer between handling and horsepower. I had a new student (friend of mine) with a late model BMW M5. Before the track day he had big expectations of kicking butt out there. Buddy with the new GT500 thought the same thing. What they quickly realized is that track driving is a whole new ball game. As an Instructor I keep my eyes on the rear view mirror for students and I instruct them when a “point-by” is necessary to let a faster cars pass. We let a lot of "slower on paper" cars pass because they knew the track. Until your skill level is there, most people have an internal speed limit they hit that limits their ability to go faster until the confidence is there. My buddy with the GT500 was OK doing 150 MPH on the straight at the Ridge but could not get comfortable pushing the car on the high speed corners where the track get technical. Street driving does not give your the sustained G’s in the corners and the sustained speed you experience on the track. Trying harder or taking risks does not make you faster over time. It needs to happen organically so you can relax and be comfortable at speed. Speed Secrets 2 is a great book on this topic.

I spent a full day driving a stock CTR (with new 4S tires) a few weeks ago at the ridge and the car is super fun to drive and very forgiving. However, I was not able to keep up with the BMWs and Porsches with drivers that are equally skilled. All the A group cars are fast and capable. It was also nice to spend an entire day driving with only one fill up on gas. As a reference at the other end of the spectrum, I buy the gas for the GT500 when we tag team it and last year we went through 65 gallons of gas in one track day! It was over $200 even at last years gas prices! The CTR was great on fuel except that it went into limp mode and threw codes when we got low on fuel. Don't drive a CTR with a low fuel tank on the track! Filled it up and the codes went away.
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