Where are the Manuals?

SteveGG

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Since you won't believe anything I have to say, go look for yourself. I couldn't care less what you drive, or why you drive it. I'm just glad they still offer a manual for us purists. Kudos to Honda.
Well I'd believe what you say if it was backed up by facts. Let's take your claim that current CVTs will fail around 80k miles. Please show us where you got that.
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VarmintCong

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My impression is that DSG is actually the one that will die out, cause the newer ZF automatics are really good, making DSG almost overkill. Look at Alfa, they put the 8speed ZF auto in their $100,000 Guilia with Ferrari developed V6. But those ZF autos aren't going to be cheap to fix either.

About CVT, you cannot look at 1st gen designs and extrapolate to the future - engineers are always coming up with new designs, I'm sure they will solve the CVT reliability issues, if there are any. It's not that clear to me there are - I know one guy posted about his $8000 CVT repair on a Subaru forum, and that one report went viral and everyone is questioning the reliability of CVTs.

One thing's for certain, if CVTs were going to implode at 80k miles and cost $5k to fix, Honda Care's 120k mile warranty wouldnt' cost $700!
 

Concept_cody

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Do you ever manage to get anything right ?! So CVTs are just a passing fad ? Really ? Would really like to see any data supporting that. From Edmonds : "CVTs are no longer an experiment by automakers looking for new ways to improve fuel efficiency. The federal energy department figures a CVT can boost a passenger car's fuel economy by about 6 percent, and with the government asking automakers to double average fuel efficiency by 2025, every percentage point helps. So CVTs are here to stay, and their presence in the market is growing."
Fuel economy and reliability aren't really the same. If I sacrifice 2mpg on the highway but have something that either I or one of my close friends knows how to fix /rebuild at 200k miles. I'll take that. And take a look at any of the civics,cr-x's, accords, preludes, integra's, etc that are still on the road 15,20, 25 years later. 90% will be manuals. And that Honda engineering is something I trust. Because they know what they're doing with a MT. And cvt's (in the grand scheme) are fairly new. Therefore I don't trust them as much. Therefore I will be purchasing a 6mt civic.
 

Concept_cody

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@SteveGG just in case you forgot THIS THREAD IS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT A MANUAL! Go find some other place to spread the gospel of the almighty cvt. 95% of the members on this thread don't give a damn what you have to say about your "superior" transmission. We want to be engaged in the driving experience. Calling somebody dumb because they like something you don't is ignorant. You claim that because you can cruise with your car at 300rpms above idle your transmission is the mechanical equivalent to the second coming of Christ (paraphrasing of course). But you have a 2.0l NA motor. When a lot of people here are wanting to get the 1.5l turbo option, to which lugging(what your cvt is doing) can cause potentially MORE damage to the motor than cruising at 2700rpms. Get over your opinions, leave this thread, and go troll somewhere else.
 
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tgx78

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Just totalled my 1997 prelude 5sp. after driving it for about 19 years. It's 5 speed manual transmission was bulletproof and absolutely joy to use everyday.. it was WD40 smooth and precise.

My current Civic's 6 speed manual is not as satisfying (mushy and throw is little long) but still much better than CVT I tested.
 


Concept_cody

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Just totalled my 1997 prelude 5sp. after driving it for about 19 years. It's 5 speed manual transmission was bulletproof and absolutely joy to use everyday.. it was WD40 smooth and precise.

My current Civic's 6 speed manual is not as satisfying (mushy and throw is little long) but still much better than CVT I tested.
Oh no! Sorry for your loss, that was a great car.
 

VarmintCong

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Just totalled my 1997 prelude 5sp. after driving it for about 19 years. It's 5 speed manual transmission was bulletproof and absolutely joy to use everyday.. it was WD40 smooth and precise.

My current Civic's 6 speed manual is not as satisfying (mushy and throw is little long) but still much better than CVT I tested.
RIP. I really wanted a Prelude back in '97 but it didnt have enough headroom so i bought a '97 GSR sedan instead.
 

SteveGG

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@SteveGG just in case you forgot THIS THREAD IS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT A MANUAL! Go find some other place to spread the gospel of the almighty cvt. 95% of the members on this thread don't give a damn what you have to say about your "superior" transmission. We want to be engaged in the driving experience. Calling somebody dumb because they like something you don't is ignorant. You claim that because you can cruise with your car at 300rpms above idle your transmission is the mechanical equivalent to the second coming of Christ (paraphrasing of course). But you have a 2.0l NA motor. When a lot of people here are wanting to get the 1.5l turbo option, to which lugging(what your cvt is doing) can cause potentially MORE damage to the motor than cruising at 2700rpms. Get over your opinions, leave this thread, and go troll somewhere else.
Oh my, very long on opinion and feelings, but very short on accurate facts. One glaring, 300 above idle is barely 1175 and even at only 60 I turn 1625. My interest in this forum is that I had considered a MT, but rejected it for several big reasons previously stated. Certainly nothing here makes me ever even suspect my choice. Well, all enjoy rowing through half a dozen gears in traffic and turning much higher at cruise. Cheers !
 
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planedoc

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Oh my, very long on opinion and feelings, but very short on accurate facts. One glaring, 300 above idle is barely 1175 and even at only 60 I turn 1625. My interest in this forum is that I had considered a MT, but rejected it for several big reasons previously stated. Certainly nothing here makes me ever even suspect my choice. Well, all enjoy rowing through half a dozen gears in traffic and turning much higher at cruise. Cheers !
We will!
 

gtman

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What's amazing to me is how few manual Civics dealers stock. A huge local dealer has over 300 Civics in stock. A grand total of 7 are manuals. What's odd is it's fairly easy to find manual Mazda 3's or Golfs or Focuses or even Elantras. Why are Civic manuals so rare?
 


planedoc

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What's amazing to me is how few manual Civics dealers stock. A huge local dealer has over 300 Civics in stock. A grand total of 7 are manuals. What's odd is it's fairly easy to find manual Mazda 3's or Golfs or Focuses or even Elantras. Why are Civic manuals so rare?
That is the reason so few MT's are sold. There just aren't any to buy. How many people go into that dealership perfectly happy to drive home with a manual, but settle for a CVT because that's all there was. Then, the mfr'r says see, we just don't sell any! Well, you have to build them, in order to sell them....
 

SteveGG

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That is the reason so few MT's are sold. There just aren't any to buy. How many people go into that dealership perfectly happy to drive home with a manual, but settle for a CVT because that's all there was. Then, the mfr'r says see, we just don't sell any! Well, you have to build them, in order to sell them....
It's an effect not a cause. Do you think there are some who, really wanting a MT, would settle for something else costing more, because a MT would take a bit longer to get ? Honda might phase MTs out altogether since they sell so few. It was only 1 in 20 in '16, and only 1 in 45 currently stocked '17s.
 
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planedoc

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It's an effect not a cause. Do you think there are some who, really wanting a MT, would settle for something else costing more, because a MT would take a bit longer to get ? Honda might phase MTs out altogether since they sell so few. It was only 1 in 20 in '16, and only 1 in 45 currently stocked '17s.
If they do phase them out, then I just don't need to drive Hondas
 

DavidJBrooks

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Do you think there are some who, really wanting a MT, would settle for something else costing more, because a MT would take a bit longer to get
Yes. It happens all the time. It's called "upselling".

Some people need an auto. Some people need a manual. The rest can be pushed either way, and availability does the pushing. If the manufacturer knows that they can sell an "optional feature" such as an automatic if the unequipped model is in short supply, you can rest assured they are going to decide on allocations accordingly.

An automatic is marginally better at simplicity, acceleration and efficiency, and marginally worse at reliability and driver involvement. You have chosen simplicity, efficiency and (possibly) acceleration over reliability and driver involvement, which is your right as a consumer. There is nothing, however, inherently superior about an automatic transmission, and simply arguing that the unwashed masses seem to choose "simplicity" over "engagement" proves only that Americans, as a rule, consider driving to be a chore.

An "automatic transmission" is still considered, by many, to be a luxury, and desirable because it simplifies the driving experience. Many of those people, however, would purchase a manual if it were available.

The desire to make more money - not the EPA or changing preferences - is what is largely killing the manual transmission.
 

DavidJBrooks

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Well, all enjoy rowing through half a dozen gears in traffic and turning much higher at cruise.
We will. Most of us would (and do) pay extra for those specific features. You are trying to tell us that our cake comes with extra frosting - just because you are happy with thin gruel doesn't mean the rest of us are.
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