What's the factory sub weak point?

Phy

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
894
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
'20 Civic HB ST, '18 Civic HB EX, '04 Ford Ranger
Country flag
The factory sub is garbage, but what is holding it back? The sub or the amp or both? Is it worth upgrading the factory parts or just disconnect and go around it like you would with lower trim models?
Sponsored

 

CbusHondaFan

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2018
Threads
4
Messages
107
Reaction score
94
Location
New Albany, OH
Vehicle(s)
2006 Si TW, 2019 Civic Type R CW
Country flag
The factory sub is garbage, but what is holding it back? The sub or the amp or both? Is it worth upgrading the factory parts or just disconnect and go around it like you would with lower trim models?
I think it's the DSP that Honda is using because the subwoofer, as you know, doesn't really do anything - you can't tell it's even working! I installed Viper4Android and I can now definitely hear and feel the bass from the subwoofer. It's a HUGE change and shows that the subwoofer is actually not that bad at all but the default DSP settings from Honda ruin it. Also if you get into the "secret" infotainment menu and run the speaker test you will hear and feel the subwoofer big time! It sounds great but why Honda gimped it with their crappy DSP settings is beyond me. Maybe Helen Keller was in charge of the audio division... :rolleyes:
 
OP
OP
Phy

Phy

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
894
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
'20 Civic HB ST, '18 Civic HB EX, '04 Ford Ranger
Country flag
I think it's the DSP that Honda is using because the subwoofer, as you know, doesn't really do anything - you can't tell it's even working! I installed Viper4Android and I can now definitely hear and feel the bass from the subwoofer. It's a HUGE change and shows that the subwoofer is actually not that bad at all but the default DSP settings from Honda ruin it. Also if you get into the "secret" infotainment menu and run the speaker test you will hear and feel the subwoofer big time! It sounds great but why Honda gimped it with their crappy DSP settings is beyond me. Maybe Helen Keller was in charge of the audio division... :rolleyes:
So the first budget fix I should do is hondahack and viper? I'll probably replace the factory components at some point, but don't have the money at the moment.
 

19redsi

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Threads
1
Messages
17
Reaction score
7
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2019 Si Sedan
Country flag
This isn't the first time i've heard Hondahack + Viper was the way to go, but is there any consensus on what options us iPhone users have? Also, does any other product besides itunes allow you to still access Siri/CarPlay or is that something people give up?
 
OP
OP
Phy

Phy

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
894
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
'20 Civic HB ST, '18 Civic HB EX, '04 Ford Ranger
Country flag
So honda hack and viper helps, but only if you're streaming off your phone/usb, so not really a true fix. The sub is definitely "capable", though it's no Kicker or Rockford. I doubt there's anything I can do about the factory amp other than just go around it with another amp and some type of line out converter like an lc2i.

So next question, just how capable is the factory sub? If you replace it what size subs will fit?
 


19redsi

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Threads
1
Messages
17
Reaction score
7
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2019 Si Sedan
Country flag
So honda hack and viper helps, but only if you're streaming off your phone/usb, so not really a true fix. The sub is definitely "capable", though it's no Kicker or Rockford. I doubt there's anything I can do about the factory amp other than just go around it with another amp and some type of line out converter like an lc2i.
So, my understanding is that the lc2i does NOT do signal summing (see 4th response down by "audio control": https://www.caraudio.com/threads/audiocontrol-lc2i-can-it-sum.570100/). So, if you patch into the fronts you have a high-pass filter working against you, if you patch into the sub, you have a low pass filter working against you (only allows below 40Hz I believe - ScopeSys did some work on this).

That should mean you need an lc7i or similar to sum the signals. BUT, summing the signals will do-away with some controls based on what you sum. Summing front left + front right would eliminate the balance control; summing front + rear would eliminate the fade control; it would then follow that summing front+sub then should eliminate the sub control right? This should not be an issue if you use the wired remote knob as an accessory from Audio Control.

All of this might mean that the frequency restriction on the factory amp side might be the root of the problem and that replacing the sub will do little. Thoughts?


edit: typed too fast and kant spel
 
OP
OP
Phy

Phy

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
894
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
'20 Civic HB ST, '18 Civic HB EX, '04 Ford Ranger
Country flag
So, my understanding is that the lc2i does NOT do signal summing (see 4th response down by "audio control": https://www.caraudio.com/threads/audiocontrol-lc2i-can-it-sum.570100/). So, if you patch into the fronts you have a high-pass filter working against you, if you patch into the sub, you have a low pass filter working against you (only allows below 40Hz I believe - ScopeSys did some work on this).

That should mean you need an lc7i or similar to sum the signals. BUT, summing the signals will do-away with some controls based on what you sum. Summing front left + front right would eliminate the balance control; summing front + rear would eliminate the fade control; it would then follow that summing front+sub then should eliminate the sub control right? This should not be an issue if you use the wired remote knob as an accessory from Audio Control.

All of this might mean that the frequency restriction on the factory amp side might be the root of the problem and that replacing the sub will do little. Thoughts?


edit: typed too fast and kant spel
Definitely wouldn't replace the sub by itself, HondaHack + Viper shows that it can pump out some bass, my concern would be if an aftermarket amp would be too much for it. My budget thinking is LC2i wired from front speakers to an amp with a remote knob then back into factory sub.
 

19redsi

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Threads
1
Messages
17
Reaction score
7
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2019 Si Sedan
Country flag
Definitely wouldn't replace the sub by itself, HondaHack + Viper shows that it can pump out some bass, my concern would be if an aftermarket amp would be too much for it. My budget thinking is LC2i wired from front speakers to an amp with a remote knob then back into factory sub.
But, if you do that, wouldn't you be sending only signals 80Hz and up to the sub? The front speakers are not full range and as such do not reproduce the bass frequencies - and if those are the source that you are sending through the LOC and to an amp, I think you'll be missing out on any low frequencies.
 
OP
OP
Phy

Phy

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
894
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
'20 Civic HB ST, '18 Civic HB EX, '04 Ford Ranger
Country flag
But, if you do that, wouldn't you be sending only signals 80Hz and up to the sub? The front speakers are not full range and as such do not reproduce the bass frequencies - and if those are the source that you are sending through the LOC and to an amp, I think you'll be missing out on any low frequencies.
Well, on the -non factory sub models- that's where they pull the signal from. (I believe) I don't know if you can pull from the lines leading into the factory amp, and I don't know if it's worth/advisable to pull from after it.
 

19redsi

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Threads
1
Messages
17
Reaction score
7
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2019 Si Sedan
Country flag
Well, on the -non factory sub models- that's where they pull the signal from. (I believe) I don't know if you can pull from the lines leading into the factory amp, and I don't know if it's worth/advisable to pull from after it.
Ahhhh. I have a factory sub model and that's how I was thinking about it.
 


OP
OP
Phy

Phy

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
894
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
'20 Civic HB ST, '18 Civic HB EX, '04 Ford Ranger
Country flag
Ahhhh. I have a factory sub model and that's how I was thinking about it.
Yeah, my wife has an EX, so to add a sub to her car I'll run a line out converter from the front speaker wires, as other people have mentioned the front speakers have better signals than the rear speakers. On my car however, I was hoping to modify as little as possible, mostly for budget issues, and there seems to be some conflicting information about how best to approach it.
 

Nitroturtle

Senior Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
354
Reaction score
369
Location
WV
Vehicle(s)
2019 PMM CTR, 2006 S2000, 2010 Element EX AWD
Country flag
I've tried feeding an upgraded sub + amp both the factory sub signal and the front door signal, both through an LC2i. The signal from the front speakers gave significantly better results. Along with V4A this has absolutely transformed the stereo and I'm very happy with the results. This is in a CTR, so I have no idea how the HB differs.
 

Snoopyslr

Senior Member
First Name
John
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Threads
23
Messages
1,916
Reaction score
2,248
Location
Fenton, Michigan
Vehicle(s)
2016 Honda Civic EX-T, 2016 Ford F-150, 2003 Subaru Impreza WRX
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Without some kind of digital signal processing, you're not going to get much out of any sub. Even summing, you're not going to gain what's not there. This is where Audio Control's AccuBass comes in to play. It will attempt to restore the lost roll off from the factory.

Just a warning. This is a huge rabbit hole you're standing on the edge of.
 
OP
OP
Phy

Phy

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
894
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
'20 Civic HB ST, '18 Civic HB EX, '04 Ford Ranger
Country flag
I've tried feeding an upgraded sub + amp both the factory sub signal and the front door signal, both through an LC2i. The signal from the front speakers gave significantly better results. Along with V4A this has absolutely transformed the stereo and I'm very happy with the results. This is in a CTR, so I have no idea how the HB differs.
So I should wire it the way I would on an EX, ie. bypass the factory amp.
 

Nitroturtle

Senior Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
354
Reaction score
369
Location
WV
Vehicle(s)
2019 PMM CTR, 2006 S2000, 2010 Element EX AWD
Country flag
So I should wire it the way I would on an EX, ie. bypass the factory amp.
Sorry, I should have clarified, in both cases I tapped into outputs after the factory amp.
Sponsored

 


 


Top