What would be a worthy upgrade after the Si?

saz468

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Unfortunately Toyota had no way of producing this engine without spending lots of money. This will probably be a limited run for a few years, and because it's a Modified Z4 engine, parts will be around for a long time. Just look at the Toyota/Subaru 86/BRZ. I see more of those on the road than any other performance car. It can be done if done right, and Toyota is a very careful company that doesn't take many risks.

Happy Holidays to you and your family as well!
True Toyota is a responsibility company. Just on a funny note remember the rebadged Toyota Tercel as the Chevy nova in the late 80s:rofl:
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amirza786

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True Toyota is a responsibility company. Just on a funny note remember the rebadged Toyota Tercel as the Chevy nova in the late 80s:rofl:
Or better yet, what about the Geo Prism, which was a cheaper, re-badged Toyota Corolla! I could have saved a few grand when I bought my 96 Corolla if I had just picked up one these, but I didn't want anything with a Chevrolet name plate sitting in my driveway ever again!
 

charleswrivers

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Similar car? A GTI/GLI. Reliability might not be there (though still not terrible when you look across all the cars they sell) but the warranty will protect you when new or CPO (though the manufacturer warranty got shortened drastically this past year). Engine/turbo capacity is more in line with the CTR. More comfort oriented. Make sure you get the trim with the LSD. The lower ones lacked them (or at least used to).

Muscle car? A Mustang with a 5.0 only. Don’t get a turbo 4 for a muscle car or you’ll completely miss the muscle car experience.

Batshit option? A Tesla 3. If you can stretch to the performance model for nearly 50k, I’ll be quicker on the street than 99% of the cars on the street including the 5.0 and you can see what the dark side has to offer. The range extended one is still reasonably quick and in your budget. I don’t think the value is there on Teslas, but I’d own one if I could condone spending the $$$ on a car that, to me, is $10-20k over the other ICE cars it should be competing with... and I doubt you’ll see a return on investment inside a decade. With all the touchscreen tech crap and how an iPad is junk in 1/2 the time, I’m a little leery on a car who’s interior is so dependent on tech.

On the budget front, if you’ll accept used, I’d throw Cadillacs performance sedans... maybe an Audi or BMW if you want to get a CPO and get out of it before their warranties are out. I know a couple folks I work with got some C7 Vettes for raging deals with the C8 looming.
 

MutatedMango

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I have contemplated upgrading the Si
But don’t know what would be worth it
I’ve thought about a type R but interior feels the same besides the seats and I upgraded my shifter already so it already feels better than an R
And even did the type r steering wheel, so getting into an R almost wouldn’t feel as special.
I’m not sure
But what are your guys’ thoughts?

thanks!
Besides Type R: WRX, STI, Focus RS, BRZ, Veloster N, Camaro RS/SS, Mustang Ecoboost/GT, GTI, Golf R, Challenger R/T, Miata, 370Z (all manual ofc)
 
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abracadaniel_

abracadaniel_

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I really want to test drive a type R and see if it’ll change my mind but no dealer will do it, they guard it like it’s a freaking Ferrari
I’m on a journey to test drive a used one at least
Then when I’m actually ready I’ll look into mustang gt’s also and see if I fall in love with the power
 


aldo

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The problem is that when you upgrade from the Si the law of diminishing returns accelerates quickly. There’s a reason the Si has been around as long as it has, and has the following it does. For $23K you get a lot. My vote goes to the Mustang GT 5.0 stripped down. The reliability isn’t too bad on them these days, and gas mileage isnt bad for a 500 HP V8. Shop around and get one new for $33K.
 

CTSteve

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I ‘upgraded’ from a 2015 Si Coupe, which I enjoyed as a daily driver, to a 2018 Type R, pretty much done on a whim. I had been thinking about it, I was on the Internet, there was a pop-up ad from a dealer about 50 miles from me advertising a CTR at MSRP in the color I wanted, so off I went. I went into the showroom, there was a $3000 ADM sticker on the windshield that was not mentioned in the online ad. I told the salesman that if he took that sticker off, I’d buy it at MSRP that day. A short conference with the sales manager, it was the end of a month and close to the end of the year, they gave me a fair trade on my SI, and we made the deal.

The cars are so different that it’s almost impossible to compare them. For me the biggest things are the absence of torque steer, which was my greatest point of discomfort in the SI, the availability of continuous smooth power and the powerful cornering capability. The body is much more rigid and tight, the suspension is phenomenal, for daily driving the power is always there when you want it.

One factor to consider is whether you are content to drive the car as it is or feel compelled to tinker with it mechanically and make it somehow ‘better’. The comment has been made that there’s a lot less performance increase ‘headroom’ in the Type R than there is in the SI. I.e., the factory has already taken the CTR so far into its potential performance envelope, that can you spend a lot of money and get just marginal performance increases. Some of that can be things like correcting overheating problems in a racing environment, a lot of people don’t like the wheels and tires, although I think they’re just fine for daily driving, in fact I like them a lot and would never consider changing. If you’re thing is take a car and modify it to make what you consider to be a better car, the SI is probably a better choice. However, for spending the same amount of money in the end that you could’ve used to buy a stock Type R, you’ll probably never get something that’s of the basic caliber of the Type R, at least for the street. But if that’s what you enjoy and that’s what you want to spend your money on then that’s what you should do.

Trying to ‘improve’ the CTR appears to be somewhat frustrating. As I read the forums and vlogs, I see people spending thousands of dollars on add-ons that just don’t make the car that much better, maybe in some ways not better. I see people doing that, getting discouraged because the car is not that much better with all the stuff on it than what they started with, taking all the performance stuff off and getting rid of the car. BTW, in my opinion taking a car beyond stock, to perhaps the point of voiding the warranty, and then returning it to ‘ stock’ by removing parts and selling it off as if it never been modified is extremely dishonest. In the end if something happens to the car mechanically, it may very well be voided on warranty, which Honda may be able to detect, and a naïve second or third buyer just doesn’t know that. Anyone buying a CTR used should be very wary of that and have a thorough mechanical inspection to determine as well as can be done whether the car is truly original and still on warranty or not. That include checking the ECU, looking for physical marks of parts having been installed and removed, the general condition of the car, etc.

I bought mine without doing a test drive. With 60 years or so driving experience, based on the reviews I pretty much knew what to expect, and that’s what I got. The car is superlative; inspires a feeling of driving confidence. It will always do what you want it to do, and often seems to be pushing you to do more, yet it’s comfortable and you will probably experience Honda reliability. It’s unbelievable that this total package is available in the market at less than $40,000.

It’s a personal subjective decision. What should you consider? Does the four- passenger hatchback configuration work for you? How do you feel about the appearance of the car? Personally, I have never had a negative comment on the appearance when someone is right there where the car is. In fact, universally the opposite of that, all favorable comments. It does not photograph as well as it looks in person. The color choice is also important in terms of how it deals with the contrast of the black plastic areas versus the body color and how you feel about that. Can you feel can you pretty much leave the car as it is or do you feel compelled to modify? Wheels and tires are an issue. If you live in an area that has winter, you’re going to need two sets of tires, one for summer and then a set of all seasons or true winter tires to use when it gets cold. That’s also true to some extent for Si, although we are talking much larger and more expensive wheels and tires. On the other hand, with a lot of people dumping the factory tires and wheels, you can pick up a second set inexpensively, just over $1000 for wheels with tires on them, so it may not be quite as much of an issue as it seems. There is no question that the low- profile tires on the big wheels are subject to damage on bad roads.

It’s all pretty subjective. I’m happy with what I’ve got, pleased that I made the change. It’s cost me some money for wheels and tires, but I’m pleased with using this car as a daily driver.
 

BoostedDreams

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ND Miata, 2019+ if you can afford new :)

Walks all over the Civic in terms of driving feel, engagement, and overall fun factor! It's also faster to 60 than an Si so you rule out the "it's slow" part.

Only loses out in everyday practicality. I want one in a few years :)
I think it runs like a 14.7@97 in 1/4 so it essentially beats the si in that regard too
 

JT Si

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I was one of those that at the time was shouting WTF is Toyota putting a BMW engine in their flagship sports car, but changed that mindset when I did some reading on this. Toyota wanted an in-line 6 for their Supra, and BMW had a suitable one. Toyota wanted this engine to be reliable, and basically drove BMW crazy by making them re-engineer everything all the way down to the smallest bolt. So you have a reliable high performance sports car designed by Toyota and built by BMW!
Where did you hear this? I heard Toyota took an engine back to their lab, disassembled it, and came to the conclusion it was already up to their standard. I think this was from the Savagegeese video.
 


saz468

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Or better yet, what about the Geo Prism, which was a cheaper, re-badged Toyota Corolla! I could have saved a few grand when I bought my 96 Corolla if I had just picked up one these, but I didn't want anything with a Chevrolet name plate sitting in my driveway ever again!
As I got into my place of employment I saw this
This is another reason I don’t trust that auto manufacturer his bimmer started to run bad and stop he can’t get it to start

Honda Civic 10th gen What would be a worthy upgrade after the Si? 312A571C-249A-44EF-8A76-5EE442D999C5
 

amirza786

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Where did you hear this? I heard Toyota took an engine back to their lab, disassembled it, and came to the conclusion it was already up to their standard. I think this was from the Savagegeese video.
I read it last year. It is true that they took it and disassembled it, but that was for the purposes of finding the weak points. And BMW's have lots of weak points. Shitty bolts that break. Valve stem seals that constantly leak. Valve cover gasket leaks. Coolant leaks. Oil burning is such a problem in their higher performance engines that they have to use 60 weight oil. Because it's so heavy, you have to warm up the car before you drive or the engine will become oil starved.

To achieve Toyota reliability, they had to re-engineer many of the components. Ask any BMW owner who tells you "my engine has 150k": is this the original head gasket? What major work have you had to do since you've owned it? You'll be met with silence and an awkward smile

BTW, check out the Savagegeese videos on M3 reviews. He always comments that he is afraid he is going to break them
 
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amirza786

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As I got into my place of employment I saw this
This is another reason I don’t trust that auto manufacturer his bimmer started to run bad and stop he can’t get it to start

312A571C-249A-44EF-8A76-5EE442D999C5.jpeg
Ha ha read my post above this one
 

Ron R

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Some good choices stated here. I love my SI and have no plans of changing anytime soon. But the following would be my suggestion:

Type R (Test drive one)
Kia Stinger GT
Camaro SS with 6 speed
Next Generation WRX or STI
Next Generation Golf R
Bullit Mustang 6 Speed, if you can find rebates on them.
Dodge Hemi 6.4 ltr Challenger or Charger if you dont mind the mass of them.
Nissan 370z with 6 speed

Good luck and have fun if you decide to replace your SI.
 

Aero2001

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In your price range, consider the Genesis G70, especially with RWD. If you can splurge for the V6T, do it. The 2.0T isn't as good as the 2.0T in the Accord, but of course the Accord can't match the G70's RWD dynamics.
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