What is Car and Driver smoking?

[xbbnx]

Below is their top 6 ranking for compact sport vehicles. As you can see the GTI and GLI are 1 and 2 respectively, beating out the Type R and even the Veloster N. Again what the hell are they smoking?

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[jred721]

Hmm...I do feel like Car and Driver generally tends to favor newer offerings to the market, 10th gen Civic is not exactly new right now. Civic Type R certainly out performs the GTI/GLI however the Si not so much even though it is a little cheaper. Also, I do think they take price into consideration, so them ranking the Type R below the 2 VW's is essentially them saying that for the money those 2 are better buy's. That's the only thing I disagree with, the Type R is certainly amazing value for money and should be #1 on that list IMO with Veloster N being second.

However if you're comparing the SI to a GTI/GLI, I think it's a different story. I've been in a Jetta GLI before (granted it was a fully loaded one) and the interior is world's ahead of the Honda. From the multi-color ambient lighting, the virtual dash and the infotainment it was just better all around. And currently in my area, I can pick up a lesser optioned GLI for the same money as an Si if not cheaper and it offers more power to boot as well. Now the GTI is certainly more expensive than the Si as well, but it offers again much more power from a bigger engine and a nicer interior and a more modern platform. So I think an argument can be made for the GTI and GLI to be above the Si.

 

[turbo lover]

What ranking criteria do they use? Clearly it's not based purely on performance figures. Honestly for $8k less, I'd probably buy the GTI over the Type R.

 

[xbbnx]

What ranking criteria do they use? Clearly it's not based purely on performance figures. Honestly for $8k less, I'd probably buy the GTI over the Type R.

It's the Sport compact category, performance should be weighted very heavily..In this category I dont see any reason for a GTI/GLI podium finish.

 

[Drake]

They have always showered the GTI with high praise and it usually wins their comparos, not always unfairly. I think the N is clearly the performance bargain of the group, though I heard the ride can be harsh and the back seats small. The VWs are likely the nicest to daily while also packing more power than the Si, but higher pricing and who-knows reliability is why I chose the Si (also mpgs are nice). I think the R only lost because it's the most expensive of the group by $8k (and good luck finding one much below msrp) and this comparison is clearly for those on a budget. Compare the R to any $35-40k car and it'll probably win

 

[saiko21]

Do they consider maintenance point? Their type R kept a dent in their pockets because of bent rim and tyre blowout

 

[REBELXSi]

Do they consider maintenance point? Their type R kept a dent in their pockets because of bent rim and tyre blowout

That's their fault not Hondas fault.

 

[saiko21]

That's their fault not Hondas fault.

yeah, i am saying that might affected their decision

 

[Jeffers]

They aren't ranking them for reliability and maintenance costs.

 

[CastorX]

... I've been in a Jetta GLI before (granted it was a fully loaded one) and the interior is world's ahead of the Honda. From the multi-color ambient lighting, the virtual dash and the infotainment it was just better all around. ...

I agree. Infotainment is a lot better in newer VWs. But didn't you find the Jetta a bit boring compared to a Civic si? Just asking. It might just be that here basically every fourth vehicle on the roead is a VW. I don't know much about handling in a Jetta GLI but even the civic 1.5t hatch outperforms the VW MQB Platform vehicles (even the Golf Gti) in emergency situations (like moose test, braking) on factory summer tires.
Btw. i find it strange that they don't even sell the new GTI in Germany yet. It has probably someting to do with the new Emission standards. It isn't even possible to order a GTI from VW at the moment, it's not listed as a model on the German website. The cheapest Golf one can buy now it the new golf with a 1 liter 90hp engine for 20.000 Euros base price.

 

[TheHorse13]

They are smoking the cash influx from the highest bidder. This isn't unique to the automotive industry.

 

[charleswrivers]

Im not surprised. The Civic is pretty old now. It’s mid-cycle refresh served to sprinkle higher trim electronic safety stuff down to the lower trims as the only major new stuff I saw that really jumped out at me... though the CTR looked like it got some love on the performance front. Gen 8 was a car of the year and was getting panned towards the end of its 6 year run from ‘06-‘11 as well... and it was ever bit as good of a car in ‘06 as ‘11. Not unexpected to me... and there’s some good competition there. Maybe gen 11 will be a good improvement. It is showing to me that, if its not a step forward and a misstep, well get another meh “odd generation”.
I myself really like the GLI. I doubt I’d of picked my Si over the current GLI. It’s more money... but it looks like a lot more car. I also like the amount of tuning headroom on the stock car. I’d need an extra $3k in a turbo, clutch and a tune to approach the 300 whp those cars can get on a reflash. To me, that really makes the GLI fit into a nicer-than-a-Civic but quasi-CTR-lite kinda spot we never got.

 

[civicmanic]

That's their fault not Hondas fault.

20 inch rims are not forgiving. That's Honda's fault.

 

[civicmanic]

Affordability, bang for your buck.

Think of it this way, the ctr gets the nod over their direct competitors, golf r and sti - which didn't even make the list. Even the Si gets listed over them. Nothing to see here.

 

[jred721]

I agree. Infotainment is a lot better in newer VWs. But didn't you find the Jetta a bit boring compared to a Civic si? Just asking. It might just be that here basically every fourth vehicle on the roead is a VW. I don't know much about handling in a Jetta GLI but even the civic 1.5t hatch outperforms the VW MQB Platform vehicles (even the Golf Gti) in emergency situations (like moose test, braking) on factory summer tires.
Btw. i find it strange that they don't even sell the new GTI in Germany yet. It has probably someting to do with the new Emission standards. It isn't even possible to order a GTI from VW at the moment, it's not listed as a model on the German website. The cheapest Golf one can buy now it the new golf with a 1 liter 90hp engine for 20.000 Euros base price.

Civic Si seems just a bit more tighter and nimble around corners to be honest but the GLI was no slouch from what I felt at least. I only drove it for so long as it was my coworkers car but it seemed to handle pretty well and it seemed responsive. The thing that stood out to the most honestly was the 2.0 turbo powertrain, felt like it had plenty of power and was pretty damn quick paired with the DSG. These are just my first impressions though and i'm in no way saying the Si is a bad car or anything, but just from what I felt/saw I can see why a website like and car and driver would rank it above the Si right now. As for the GTI, I have no clue what they are doing and it is strange that it is not even selling in Germany yet, that's usually not the case.

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