Water-meth injector

123sillyboy123

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Anyone has experience with water-meth injector?
I am planning to get it done and of course have the car properly tune for it.

I know M4 GTS equipped with same thing except it is pure water injector...

Is there any downside for running meth other than out of meth!!

There is no flexfuel where i live.

Those who has meth.. how much power your car pushing without built motor?
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d15b7

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downside to meth vs pure water is that if you run out of meth (or a line breaks or a nozzle clogs or a pump burns out) and your'e tuned for it, and it doesn't sense that you're out (or that the pump failed etc), then you run lean and detonate and boom.

my CTR is stock, but on my EVO VIII (lightly built with HKS 264 cams, downpipe, cat delete, straight pipes, and reflashed ecu) I ran water injection. it was great especially in the summer (I mostly didn't bother in the winter i'd drain the tank and leave it til spring). but with water injection you aren't adding fuel so if it fails (and they do fail sometimes) you don't run lean and don't hurt anything.

thats why I don't like meth.

also there is one other thing - I'm assuming you're doing a single injector for the meth upstream of the throttle body ? (thats the standard 'cheaper' method). as opposed to four injectors one in each port of the manifold (thats the expensive 'better' method). you don't get even distribution of the meth/water fuel into each cylinder like you get with the port injection method, and you can have one cylinder running leaner than the others. this is why with NOS for instance the lower power cheaper systems use one fogger nozzle. and the real good systems use port injection one nozzle per cylinder so that the distribution of fuel/NOS is even and all cylinders are balanced.
 
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123sillyboy123

123sillyboy123

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downside to meth vs pure water is that if you run out of meth (or a line breaks or a nozzle clogs or a pump burns out) and your'e tuned for it, and it doesn't sense that you're out (or that the pump failed etc), then you run lean and detonate and boom.

my CTR is stock, but on my EVO VIII (lightly built with HKS 264 cams, downpipe, cat delete, straight pipes, and reflashed ecu) I ran water injection. it was great especially in the summer (I mostly didn't bother in the winter i'd drain the tank and leave it til spring). but with water injection you aren't adding fuel so if it fails (and they do fail sometimes) you don't run lean and don't hurt anything.

thats why I don't like meth.

also there is one other thing - I'm assuming you're doing a single injector for the meth upstream of the throttle body ? (thats the standard 'cheaper' method). as opposed to four injectors one in each port of the manifold (thats the expensive 'better' method). you don't get even distribution of the meth/water fuel into each cylinder like you get with the port injection method, and you can have one cylinder running leaner than the others. this is why with NOS for instance the lower power cheaper systems use one fogger nozzle. and the real good systems use port injection one nozzle per cylinder so that the distribution of fuel/NOS is even and all cylinders are balanced.
Thanks for the detail insight... appreciated.

Could you suggest some sort of failsafe that i can do? I have level sensor and thats pretty much it.

To prevent line break.. is braided ss line better?
To prevent nozzle clog, is nozzle filter needed??
Thank you
 
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123sillyboy123

123sillyboy123

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And how much power gain we are looking at for water-meth?

I live in canada so water will definitely freeze in winter but water-meth have much lower freeze point.
 

d15b7

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you're welcome; something like this is what I'd use if I were you. I wouldn't run water/meth for power adder with tuning without having a failsafe system such as this (it measures flow and is by a reputable company called AEM. they are a quality company who are involved in motorsports too).

 


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you're welcome; something like this is what I'd use if I were you. I wouldn't run water/meth for power adder with tuning without having a failsafe system such as this (it measures flow and is by a reputable company called AEM. they are a quality company who are involved in motorsports too).

So am I understanding right when you just use water infusion as a way of controlling air charge temps and don't use any methanol for added power potential? And thus no need to tune in the water/"methanol" kit as no fuel is being added?
 
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123sillyboy123

123sillyboy123

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you're welcome; something like this is what I'd use if I were you. I wouldn't run water/meth for power adder with tuning without having a failsafe system such as this (it measures flow and is by a reputable company called AEM. they are a quality company who are involved in motorsports too).

My kit is from snow performance..
I will look into that aem failsafe gauge..
Do you know if snow performance has similar failsafe? Would prefer using same company if possible.

Thanks alot
 
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123sillyboy123

123sillyboy123

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My kit is from snow performance..
I will look into that aem failsafe gauge..
Do you know if snow performance has similar failsafe? Would prefer using same company if possible.

Thanks alot
Base on my understanding.. if u put just water.. you dont need custom tune..
 

d15b7

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yes exactly - in my EVO VIII my car was reflashed for the HKS264 cams and downpipe cat delete; the fueling was adjusted and the timing was advanced, all to run on 93 octane. i installed the water injection to cool the intake charge and also to provide additional detonation protection. I used the car as a fun canyon carver and also did occasional track events with it. I had the water injection set to start spraying water at 12psi boost and above. it made a huge difference in power when it was over 80 deg outside; the water injection super cools the intake charge and basically acts as a extremely good intercooler no matter what the weather. I never used it in winter as it was already cold outside.

it didn't matter if the water injection ran out or failed (I did have a light that warned me if it got low) because it wasn't adding fuel. the car would still run safely with no water but you'd lose power.

if you are injecting meth then the engine is expecting that fuel to be coming in when you come up on boost; if it suddenly fails and you run lean you get instant detonation and the ringlands can crack and other very bad things can happen (burn holes in the pistons burn the valves destroy the engine).
 
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123sillyboy123

123sillyboy123

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yes exactly - in my EVO VIII my car was reflashed for the HKS264 cams and downpipe cat delete; the fueling was adjusted and the timing was advanced, all to run on 93 octane. i installed the water injection to cool the intake charge and also to provide additional detonation protection. I used the car as a fun canyon carver and also did occasional track events with it. I had the water injection set to start spraying water at 12psi boost and above. it made a huge difference in power when it was over 80 deg outside; the water injection super cools the intake charge and basically acts as a extremely good intercooler no matter what the weather. I never used it in winter as it was already cold outside.

it didn't matter if the water injection ran out or failed (I did have a light that warned me if it got low) because it wasn't adding fuel. the car would still run safely with no water but you'd lose power.

if you are injecting meth then the engine is expecting that fuel to be coming in when you come up on boost; if it suddenly fails and you run lean you get instant detonation and the ringlands can crack and other very bad things can happen (burn holes in the pistons burn the valves destroy the engine).
Very detail explanation.
I do want to use 50-50mix ... so i am looking into failsafe now.
What do u think about this?
https://www.snowperformance.net/vc-50-controller-sno-60500.asp

I have this already.. is it good enough? Aem seems quite costly
 


d15b7

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it has the words 'fail safe' in the description, but then doesn't ever elaborate on what that means.... if i were you i'd email them and ask them what fail safe means? i'm betting that it means that it will flash a red light at you if there is a problem. that means the microsecond you see a red light you have to lift off the throttle or you'll lean out and hurt your motor (since it's tuned for meth). if you don't see it and keep it floored bad things will happen.

what you want is for the tune to change if there is a failure of the meth so that your engine wont run lean. email them and ask it cant hurt to know what they mean by failsafe
 
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123sillyboy123

123sillyboy123

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So i got my snow meth kit and boost juice ... installing it this weekend.. and have it retune.
Decided to run it 50/50 mix.. dont have the failsafe yet...but definitely looking into the aem failsafe gauge..

Honda Civic 10th gen Water-meth injector 20200715_175948
 

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So i got my snow meth kit and boost juice ... installing it this weekend.. and have it retune.
Decided to run it 50/50 mix.. dont have the failsafe yet...but definitely looking into the aem failsafe gauge..

20200715_175948.jpg
did you every get this installed with the failsafe and tuned?
 

RBrackett

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Yes, I did. all installed with failsafe and custom tune, and dyno.. the car is much faster.. it pulls so much harder now!!!
but there is alittle torque steering but I can manage
don't stop there! I need the dets! lol did you go Snow Failsafe or AEM? how was the install? Dyno it yet? I'm leaning more towards water/Meth vs port injection now since it seems simpler and easier to install.
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