UKDM Civic Sport - Brakes never feel good - FIXED! - BROKEN !- FIXED!

[Hondanickx]

Well I ran the abs bleed and esp bleed function but it didn't improve the pedal for me.I need to bleed my brakes again and try this again. I have the same issue as OP .

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[ScottUKDM]

Out of interest, did you run the tests whilst your foot was pressed down on the brake pedal?

I ran each corner several times with the abs and the the ESP test. I did it with the engine running as well.

It's possible you do have the same issue , but perhaps whatever foreign matter is blocking the valve in the bypass mode is too jammed to move it.

I had a look on a few website that rebuild ECUs and ABS blocks, and it seems that the ATE MK100ESP is fitted to several european cars. There did seem to be some similar issues mentioned, but nothing exactly matching.

 

[Hondanickx]

Out of interest, did you run the tests whilst your foot was pressed down on the brake pedal?

I ran each corner several times with the abs and the the ESP test. I did it with the engine running as well.

It's possible you do have the same issue , but perhaps whatever foreign matter is blocking the valve in the bypass mode is too jammed to move it.

I had a look on a few website that rebuild ECUs and ABS blocks, and it seems that the ATE MK100ESP is fitted to several european cars. There did seem to be some similar issues mentioned, but nothing exactly matching.

Yes I did both with foot on the pedal and without. I will try again with the bleed valve open and see if it bleeds air.

 

[ScottUKDM]

Well that was short lived. I drove the car this weekend just gone and noticed the pedal had returned to the faulted state. Scan tool confirmed no pressure build up in the first 3/4inch of pedal travel (because the pressure relief valve has got stuck open again).

Plugged in the scantool, ran the ABS/ESP cycle commands and the pedal is perfect again. scantool registers pressure perfectly almost as soon as you press the pedal about 5mm.

I'll put up with this a few more times in the hope that whatever causes the pressure release valve to fail to close removes itself from the equation (perhaps it's debris or a bit of rust, perhaps it's not perfectly machined etc). If it keeps on failing and bleeding pressure into the accumulator then I will send the ABS block off to remanufacturing specialists who can advise/diagnose much more accurately on a bench based setup.

 

[Hondanickx]

So today I redid my brakes again.Bled them all and used the scanner to do abs vsa bleed .Nothing has worked to improve the brake feel.
I did found the live data which shows the brake pressure .When I pressed the pedal slowly and only about 1 inch it showed 7- 10 bar .When I pushed it in all the way it showed 90- 100 bar.
Don't know what to do yet...What does honda use to bleed the brakes or change the brake fluid?

 

[ScottUKDM]

I guess its luck of the draw as to whether the debris/rust can be shifted allowing the one way valve to close. My first attempt failed after just a week, but seems to have lasted now. If it came back i wouldnt be surprised.

The comapny I contacted about rebuilding the modulator did not get back to me.

Sounds like you need to send the ABS unit off for remanufacture. Remanufacture is better than new as you will not need to pay to have the abs ECU recoded to the vehicle.

I assume you have tried temporarily clamping each brake pipe with a brake pipe clamp to rule out a faulty hose or calliper mechanism?

 

[Hondanickx]

I guess its luck of the draw as to whether the debris/rust can be shifted allowing the one way valve to close. My first attempt failed after just a week, but seems to have lasted now. If it came back i wouldnt be surprised.

The comapny I contacted about rebuilding the modulator did not get back to me.

Sounds like you need to send the ABS unit off for remanufacture. Remanufacture is better than new as you will not need to pay to have the abs ECU recoded to the vehicle.

I assume you have tried temporarily clamping each brake pipe with a brake pipe clamp to rule out a faulty hose or calliper mechanism?

I might try using a pressure bleeder since the honda mechanics use an ATE pressure bleeder at the shop.
Maybe that would help .
Sending in the abs unit is my last option since I need the car everyday and it is expensive 300-400 euro.
At what pressure did you bled the system? 1 bar or 2 bar?

 

[ScottUKDM]

I used a pressure bleeder at 2 bar, but the flow rate is incredibly low. You are much better using the 2 person method as this is much more powerful and quicker. However if you have bled the brakes several times already, the pressure bleeder isn't going to fix it.

The fact there was no improvement in feel after all my bleeding attempts should have been my first clue that pressure bleeding wasn't going to achieve anything. I just never in a million years thought that the ABS modulator would be at fault in a reasonably new car that was on lowish miles and was serviced by main dealer for the first chunk of its life... I guess i was lucky with the valve jiggle, but i suspect it will still fail in the future.

 

[Hondanickx]

I used a pressure bleeder at 2 bar, but the flow rate is incredibly low. You are much better using the 2 person method as this is much more powerful and quicker. However if you have bled the brakes several times already, the pressure bleeder isn't going to fix it.

The fact there was no improvement in feel after all my bleeding attempts should have been my first clue that pressure bleeding wasn't going to achieve anything. I just never in a million years thought that the ABS modulator would be at fault in a reasonably new car that was on lowish miles and was serviced by main dealer for the first chunk of its life... I guess i was lucky with the valve jiggle, but i suspect it will still fail in the future.

Did you used a electric bleeder?
I noticed the electric bleeders use a pulsing pump that helps getting trapped air bubbles out better.
I also used regular dot 4 brake fluid and not LV brake fluid.So I could try that along with a pulsed brake bleeder.
I installed stahlbus bleeders on the calipers and can use the brake pedal to bleed manually.

 

[ScottUKDM]

I wouldn't bother. I bled the brakes several times, and there was no trapped air on any occasion. It is no harder to bleed than any other car. Pumping by foot with 1 way bleeder valves is ideal (I use them on the prelude).

The pressure bleeder was a manually operated one (like what you would spray weedkiller with).

 

[pinhead66]

@ScottUKDM I'm thinking of picking up the icarsoft jp v2.0 which is currently $150 USD on amazon. Do you know if that unit is able to run the same ABS/ESP cycle commands that your unit can? I'm interested in trying to run those same commands as well but don't want to eat $300+ dollars for the CR Max if no results come out of it and I can't return a used opened item.

 

[Hondanickx]

@ScottUKDM I'm thinking of picking up the icarsoft jp v2.0 which is currently $150 USD on amazon. Do you know if that unit is able to run the same ABS/ESP cycle commands that your unit can? I'm interested in trying to run those same commands as well but don't want to eat $300+ dollars for the CR Max if no results come out of it and I can't return a used opened item.

It should also be able to do that since it has abs bleed functions.I bought the foxwell nt530 and it has all the abs esp and brake maintenance mode features.

 

[pinhead66]

It should also be able to do that since it has abs bleed functions.I bought the foxwell nt530 and it has all the abs esp and brake maintenance mode features.

You got the foxwell nt530 for honda?

 

[Hondanickx]

You got the foxwell nt530 for honda?

Yes

 

[ScottUKDM]

@ScottUKDM I'm thinking of picking up the icarsoft jp v2.0 which is currently $150 USD on amazon. Do you know if that unit is able to run the same ABS/ESP cycle commands that your unit can? I'm interested in trying to run those same commands as well but don't want to eat $300+ dollars for the CR Max if no results come out of it and I can't return a used opened item.

It looks like it would do the job. I'd try and borrow one or simply take your car somewhere and ask if they can run the procedure for you.

I think I just got lucky that I was able to restore the issue. It came back a little while later and needed another blast - and it seems to have held for the moment.

I suspect in the years to come, there will be more failures, there are lots of other failures listed on various ECU rebuild sites for this abs modulator - although generally they tend to be brakes getting stuck on rather than poor pedal.

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