Type R vs A45 AMG vs M3 competition

HondaFan2017

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That's not bad for a fwd, manual car. With a 8 speed auto the difference would be lower than 1.6 seconds.
I think this also shows that despite having so much extra power the M3 is penalized by the gargantuan weight. 4000 lbs sports car, yeah right...

I can tell you that even 440 lbs extra(my ex Bmw 4 series vs CTR) made a notable difference in the handling. I could feel the momentum/heavy weight especially in corners. I had to fight with the car, seemed like it wanted to break loose. This spoiled the enjoyment of driving the car on twisty roads.





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jakdotdot

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1.6 seconds on a track that short and tight is pretty significant. If anything, that track choice probably favors the hot hatches as it really keeps the m3 from stretching its legs.
 
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HondaFan2017

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1.6 seconds on a track that short and tight is pretty significant. If anything, that track choice probably favors the hot hatches as it really keeps the m3 from stretching its legs.
60% more power + auto transmission (2 extra gears) is pretty significant also.
The idea was that despite such specs difference the actual performance gap is not that impressive.

I agree that such tracks favor hot-hatches. A Norschleife track time for the new M3 Comp will offer a more accurate indication of the real-life performance. As that track has a bit of everyhing (mostly hi/medium speed corners, long straights).

Anyone cross shopping a $37k Type R and $80k M3? Didn't think so. Stupid comparison.
In Europe the price difference is similar: 40k euros for CTR vs 89k euros for M3 Comp(the baldest version). https://configure.bmw.lu/fr_LU/conf...8EK,S08KA,S08R9,S08S3,S08TF,S0ZKS,S0ZLD,S0ZML

I partially agree as cars belong to different segments: enthusiast car vs saloon with everything(like pizza with "everything"). The comparison was just in terms of performance.
Seems that for 2x+ money you don't get much further in terms of performance. (and you get an overweight car)

I never understood the market(how big the demand can it be?) for these cars with "everything". They are expensive enough to approach some serious sports cars: Cayman GTS, Spyder, S that are in terms of dynamics light years ahead compared to those "suits" wannabe sports cars. What about lost practicality? Well if you can get 100k for a car, you can fork more 30-40k for a decent/normal family mover. You don't need a sub 5 sec car to give your children whiplash.
 
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Jwolf

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60% more power + auto transmission (2 extra gears) is pretty significant also.
The idea was that despite such specs difference the actual performance gap is not that impressive.

I agree that such tracks favor hot-hatches. A Norschleife track time for the new M3 Comp will offer a more accurate indication of the real-life performance. As that track has a bit of everyhing (mostly hi/medium speed corners, long straights).



In Europe the price difference is similar: 40k euros for CTR vs 89k euros for M3 Comp(the baldest version). https://configure.bmw.lu/fr_LU/conf...8EK,S08KA,S08R9,S08S3,S08TF,S0ZKS,S0ZLD,S0ZML

I partially agree as cars belong to different segments: enthusiast car vs saloon with everything(like pizza with "everything"). The comparison was just in terms of performance.
Seems that for 2x+ money you don't get much further in terms of performance. (and you get an overweight car)

I never understood the market(how big the demand can it be?) for these cars with "everything". They are expensive enough to approach some serious sports cars: Cayman GTS, Spyder, S that are in terms of dynamics light years ahead compared to those "suits" wannabe sports cars. What about lost practicality? Well if you can get 100k for a car, you can fork more 30-40k for a decent/normal family mover. You don't need a sub 5 sec car to give your children whiplash.
Money = Power/Status.

The buyer of an M3 today is not the buyer of an M3 15-20 years ago. All they care about is how the car makes them appear. I don't think enthusiasts are buying M3s anymore, they're all buying M2s.
 
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HondaFan2017

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Do u have any idea how big 1.6 seconds is in car terms? That's about 5 to six car lengths behind
I agree, on slower tracks. On faster ones for an average speed of 170 km/h aprox 50m/s, meaning 15 car lengths.
 

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that's still impressive for a 300hp 4 liter turbo FWD car. Has less the HP than those two cars and still could hang on a track.
 

SichuanHot

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Money = Power/Status.

The buyer of an M3 today is not the buyer of an M3 15-20 years ago. All they care about is how the car makes them appear. I don't think enthusiasts are buying M3s anymore, they're all buying M2s.
I would have to disagree with that. BMW is still offering this new G80 M3/M4 with a manual transmission, so it's clear they still care about the enthusiasts. It also remains the only manual alternative for a luxury performance sedan/coupe that remains practical enough to be an only car, unlike the M2 and Porsche offerings. Also that silky smooth inline 6 with a manual makes it quite unique.
 

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Like many comparison videos, this one shows how competent the CTR is on a short track; it punches above its pay grade, really.
 

Jwolf

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I would have to disagree with that. BMW is still offering this new G80 M3/M4 with a manual transmission, so it's clear they still care about the enthusiasts. It also remains the only manual alternative for a luxury performance sedan/coupe that remains practical enough to be an only car, unlike the M2 and Porsche offerings. Also that silky smooth inline 6 with a manual makes it quite unique.
Manual does not equal enthusiast in anyway shape or form. Is a base Corolla sedan an enthusiast vehicle because they offer manual? Is a Crosstrek an enthusiast vehicle because it has a manual option? Is the new Supra not an enthusiast vehicle because it lacks manual?

It's all just marketing, and you're falling for it.

Go to any track event and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. M3s are not an enthusiast car and the owners prove this.

Marketing.
Edit: https://automotivemap.com/bmw-m4-commercial-2021-2651327207.html
 

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Manual does not equal enthusiast in anyway shape or form. Is a base Corolla sedan an enthusiast vehicle because they offer manual? Is a Crosstrek an enthusiast vehicle because it has a manual option? Is the new Supra not an enthusiast vehicle because it lacks manual?

It's all just marketing, and you're falling for it.

Go to any track event and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. M3s are not an enthusiast car and the owners prove this.

Marketing.
Edit: https://automotivemap.com/bmw-m4-commercial-2021-2651327207.html
do you not see recent M cars at track days? I haven’t been to one in 15 years.
 

Jwolf

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do you not see recent M cars at track days? I haven’t been to one in 15 years.
You only see lot's of M2s (or 2 series) that know what they are doing, then you have the odd M3/5 going off the track and then proceeding to walk around and talk shit about others cars.

They're kinda like 70% of the Mustang/challenger population, just with a lot more money.
 
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HondaFan2017

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I would have to disagree with that. BMW is still offering this new G80 M3/M4 with a manual transmission, so it's clear they still care about the enthusiasts. It also remains the only manual alternative for a luxury performance sedan/coupe that remains practical enough to be an only car, unlike the M2 and Porsche offerings. Also that silky smooth inline 6 with a manual makes it quite unique.
Maybe offering a manual is just marketing, maybe Bmw cares ?!. But the question is: do real enthusiasts still care about these M3/M4/M5/M8 cars? Hint: at that weight they'll eat through consumables (pads, tyres) at a fast pace. Plus not exactly nimble from the handling pov.

I go sometimes to Norschleife. You rarely F80/F82s being tracked(unless the ring taxi companies that have one to give visitors rides). M2s you see a bit more often.
 
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I can't stand these types of vids. Comparing a fwd hatchback against a rwd monster that cost more than twice as much?

Type R has to fight above its weight class cause nothing in its segment can even come close to competing with it.
 

Jwolf

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I can't stand these types of vids. Comparing a fwd hatchback against a rwd monster that cost more than twice as much?

Type R has to fight above its weight class cause nothing in its segment can even come close to competing with it.
I mean, I understand it, the Type R is the car to beat. So any edge you can get on it, you'll take it. Just like the dumbasses over at carwow that decided to do a drag race Type R vs GR Yaris in the wet.

There are only so many honest reviews out there.
 

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