Type R FBO + Custom Tune Dyno Results (376 whp / 387 wtq) & Products Review (PRL, Remus, PTP/USR)

[HumbleSage]

Very happy for this post. This is exactly how I want to do my ride. I've kept her completely stock until more people like yourself have found great combinations and shared their experiences. Now I can start my part list for my Spring build. Thank you so much for sharing your experience.

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[Noize]

What’s up with that huge torque dip between 4700-5200rpm?

 

[David834]

@idragmazda since you got all that done to your type r, you might can help me out. Just order a lot of aftermarket parts to install and just wondering since I have close to 800 miles on the car; should I wait or should be fine and go ahead install the parts with custom tune?

 

[VTECnR]

@idragmazda since you got all that done to your type r, you might can help me out. Just order a lot of aftermarket parts to install and just wondering since I have close to 800 miles on the car; should I wait or should be fine and go ahead install the parts with custom tune?

I'm in a similar boat... 750 miles or so. I've been properly breaking in the motor but reflashed at 600 miles with Hondata's 93 calibration and am continuing some break in prudence. At 1000, I'll change the oil then drive normally. PRL intercooler & stage 1 intake are already installed too. Downpipe, front pipe, and exhaust are next and are already ordered. My custom tune is scheduled for next month and am trying to get to 1,500 miles beforehand.

 

[FK8_K20c1]

Im pretty far too located on South Indiana. My million dollar question for Derek would be what would be the difference in power numbers of dyno tune vs a e-tune?

 

[idragmazda]

@idragmazda since you got all that done to your type r, you might can help me out. Just order a lot of aftermarket parts to install and just wondering since I have close to 800 miles on the car; should I wait or should be fine and go ahead install the parts with custom tune?

I started modding around 1000 miles. I have heard waiting for the clutch break in period (600 miles I think) is not a bad idea

 

[Maximum6]

So op is telling me that there is no way the invidia r400 alone can yield 20 whp like the other thread claims

 

[davemarco]

Hey all,

I wanted to write this post to do two things: (1) demonstrate what a modestly tuned FK8 with full bolt ons ("FBO") can be capable of on a dyno; and (2) provide a review of a typical combination of full bolt on parts that many people who daily drive this car may use

Just some background - my car is a daily driver that I also want to be able to track occasionally. Therefore, the combination of FBO parts I installed factors in the “daily driver-ness” I need (hence why I ran a catted vs. catless downpipe and my other mod choices as described below).

I’ll start with the dyno numbers for the different combinations first (since that is what most people care about), and then further below you can read my review of the parts and my rationale for choosing these components.

DYNO NUMBERS
Introduction: Custom tuning was done by Honda legend @D-RobIMW at Innovative MotorWorks in Carlisle, PA. Numbers below are on 93 octane using a Dynapack dynamometer, with ambient temps 50-60F and IAT 70-80F during the dyno runs. I also compared the Dynapack numbers to the numbers we achieved on @PRL’s Dynojet one week prior (similar weather, etc.) – and the Dynapack read 2% higher, which is not significant. Derek also set up a boost by gear tune for me to help with launching; in my early testing so far it seems to make the car hook much better in 1st and 2nd.

I think there are a few more tweaks left for more power potential, so I’ll post an update when that happens...

FBO + Custom Tune by Derek: 372 whp / 385 wtq
(+66 whp / + 80 wtq over stock baseline and +28whp / +20wtq gain over KTuner Stage 1 DP Tune)
Notes: Derek capped the peak torque and moved the torque curve to the right in order to not overstress the internal components and to preserve longevity. The engine is capable of making more torque and making this higher torque much earlier on in the RPM band, both of which I specifically wanted to avoid.


FBO + KTuner Stage 1 DP Off-The-Shelf Tune: 344 whp / 365 wtq
(+38 whp / +60 wtq over stock baseline)
Notes: This is the off-the-shelf tune that is included with K-Tuner. It does account for a downpipe, but I am using a PRL catted downpipe which may not be optimal for this tune (PRL has indicated a catless downpipe would have likely yielded 5-10 higher hp).

FBO + No Tune: 310 whp / 300 wtq
(+4 whp / no wtq gain over stock baseline)
Notes: This was extremely surprising to me. I would have thought full bolt-ons would have yielded much higher numbers; however, this is because the FK8 ECU has difficulty accounting for the combination of aftermarket parts. What this tells me and what this should tell all other FK8 owners is that you should definitely have some kind of tuning solution in order to maximize power from your pricey aftermarket bolt-ons!

Stock Baseline: 306 whp / 305 wtq
Notes: Unfortunately we were unable to do a true stock baseline of my car since I came to Derek’s shop with my FBO parts already installed. However, he was able to pull up numbers from a completely stock Type R that he ran just recently. I know this doesn’t provide a 100% accurate comparison, but this is close enough

Comparison of custom tune (solid red line), Ktuner Stage 1 + DP tune (dashed red line), and FBO with no tune (dashed green line):

FBO PARTS & REVIEW

PRL Stage 1 Intake
I went with the tube + drop in filter combination from @PRL. It’s a very clean design and sounds wonderful when you’re on the throttle / in boost. When you just want to enjoy a relaxed cruise and you stay out of boost, you barely hear the faint "tututu". The turbo spool and blow off is much more pronounced than it was stock previously, but it’s not obnoxiously loud and only there when you really want it.

I went with this intake system vs. competing products because (1) I trust the craftsmanship of PRL’s products, (2) I knew spending 3x or even 10x more on an intake system wasn’t going to provide an equivalent more return in terms of power or cooler IAT2 temps. Since installing this (in combination with the PTP/USR turbo blanket), my IAT2 temps are about 5-8F degrees cooler on average. I’m not sure how much of the IAT2 drop is attributable to the turbo blanket vs. the intake itself. Either way, good product and great value.

PRL Intercooler
(EDIT: Just as I did for the Remus Exhaust, I'll do a separate detailed write up on PRL intercooler + Stage 1 intake + turbo blanket and the effects of these parts on intake temps)
I went with the tried and tested intercooler, and liked the fact that it had billet aluminum ends (versus cast). I was lucky enough to tour PRL's shop to see how they manufactured these things, and I liked what I saw. I also liked that it was a direct drop-in vs. needing modifications to make it work.

I am still compiling some data, but based on some preliminary numbers I have gathered, my IATs are about 10 degrees cooler on average in heavy stop-and-go city traffic and most importantly I see IATs coming down MUCH faster once I begin to accelerate again. With the stock intercooler, once the car was heat-soaked (IATs 120F+) it was nearly impossible to cool it off without turning it off and letting it sit for a while. This is not the case with the PRL product – with their intercooler, even if I hit IAT of 120F from sitting in city traffic, as soon as I start moving again, IATs come down very quickly.

I have also seen IAT within 5F degrees of ambient temperature under acceleration on the highway. I NEVER saw my IAT this low with the stock intercooler. Again, the turbo blanket I have installed probably also helps with keeping IAT down, but this is a great combination so far, especially now that the car has more power and subsequently more heat.

PRL CATTED downpipe
I went with the catted version (vs. the catless version) because I live in PA where we have emissions testing annually and because this is my daily driver and I do not want the smell of a catless downpipe entering the cabin. I knew I missed out on a few hp (5-10 hp according to PRL themselves) by going with the slightly more restrictive catted version, but that is OK with me. I have not thrown any codes, etc. but I think I have one of the newer designs (PRL please correct me if I'm wrong)

PTP / USR turbo blanket
This thing just works. Just buy one. I have mine installed without the heat shield on at the moment and the underhood temps are definitely lower (specifically the IAT2 as I described above). I plan to put the heat shield on and I may high-temp coat that as well like others on this forum have done. I also plan to wrap the downpipe next time I have the front end off (I keep kicking myself for not doing it when it was off).

Remus Front Pipe + Exhaust: Detailed Review
I wrote a pretty comprehensive review about this exhaust here: https://www.civicx.com/threads/remus-exhaust-detailed-review.30099/

In summary, it’s awesome and loud when you want it and not loud when you don’t. Some pics and video below. One thing we found was that when the valve is fully closed to when valve is fully open, there is a 7hp difference.

KTuner V1.2.
I had used Hondata in the past on a 2018 SI and I wanted to try something new. Heard great things about KTuner’s platform (particularly that you could store different power levels based on what mode you are in – comfort, sport, +R). I went with the V1.2 unit because it is wireless. You plug it into the OBD II port and go. The TunerView app that pairs with the KTuner V1.2 unit works great and I just recently found out that you can load multiple tunes to the KTuner V1.2 unit and flash the tune directly from the head unit TunerView app, and you can also data log directly from the TunerView app (you need a laptop to view the data log but not to flash or actual record the data). The Hondata and the V2 units are all connected by a cord and I didn’t want that. Also I should note KTuner's customer support has been great - I email @KTuner and he responds very quickly, even for my most ridiculous questions (i.e. I couldn't figure out how to see a certain graph today).

Custom Tuning by Derek at Innovative MotorWorks @D-RobIMW
Not technically a bolt on but I wanted to comment on this because how important I thought Derek’s service was / is to the car. First off, in Honda circles if you’ve been around long enough, his reputation precedes him and for good reason. His customer service is impeccable and he has a ton of tuning experience (see his instagram). He was able to fit me into his schedule last minute, on a Saturday nonetheless. He explains tuning concepts and strategies very clearly in a way that a layman can understand. He also answered my elementary questions and allowed me to hang around the shop while he did his tuning work. Even after the tune was done, he tweaked a few things remotely via email and his response time was very quick. His services are worth every penny. In addition to just normal in-person tuning, he also does remote tuning.

____

Anyway, that is my super long post. I hope you were able to take something away from reading this.

Thanks to @PRL Motorsports @REMUS USA @KTuner @D-RobIMW for helping me with the build so far. Can't wait to get it out on the track.

Given that KTuner's initial post for their Stage 1 map indicated an increase of 50 whp over stock, is it possible that the bolt-ons haven't actually done anything, even with a tune?

 

[FK8_K20c1]

Given that KTuner's initial post for their Stage 1 map indicated an increase of 50 whp over stock, is it possible that the bolt-ons haven't actually done anything, even with a tune?

There is a video on youtube comparing 2 ktuner’s CTR’s one with fbo and the other one stock. Look it up.

 

[VTECnR]

There is a video on youtube comparing 2 ktuner’s CTR’s one with fbo and the other one stock. Look it up.

This one?

 

[FK8_K20c1]

This one?

yes, that one.

 

[Fk8tjt]

Yes, the car on all season tires in fall weather (when tires are still relatively cool) will spin at 40-50mph at WOT lol. It’s kind of crazy.

However, to avoid this issue Derek also set up a “boost by gear” tune which basically sets the max torque level for each gear. This basically allows you to floor the gas in 1st and 2nd and avoid spinning. This makes the car much more user friendly, especially when just driving around town, and equally as important it makes the car quicker (“spinning is not winning”). I also am more thoughtful about when I use +R mode. If it’s wet at all I stay in sport mode (which has more aggressive traction control / will cut power earlier than the +R mode)

So with all that added power, how well can it handle that power, specifically on the track? I was wondering if maybe past a certain point all that hp and torque will make the car slower on a track. Maybe you can try to record some 0-60, 60-120 times. Also please keep us updated on how the clutch and engine holds up with that much power please!
PS.- great review/writeup btw!

 

[idragmazda]

So with all that added power, how well can it handle that power, specifically on the track? I was wondering if maybe past a certain point all that hp and torque will make the car slower on a track. Maybe you can try to record some 0-60, 60-120 times. Also please keep us updated on how the clutch and engine holds up with that much power please!
PS.- great review/writeup btw!

I havent tracked the car yet, but planning to come spring. I think for the first few track days, I’m gonna detune the car and go back to the factory tune so I can first learn to drive. As you said, at some point a lot of that power can be detrimental. I plan to dial in my boost / torque by gear once I get some 18s next spring, and that should help with power delivery.

I’ve put about 3-4K miles on the 372 hp tune (with boost by gear), daily driven, long haul drives, some “canyon carving” and lots of WOT pulls, and things seem to be holding up so far (fingers crossed). I think the boost by gear really helps with longevity too. First gear is essentially the stock torque target, second is a bit higher, and third and beyond is full power if I recall correctly. In my daily commute I’m in 1-2 more aggressively and 4-6 relatively mildly in terms of driving.

We’ve got some ideas for next year...we shall see!

 

[Dragnet]

I'm interested in the future findings myself. Besides warranty issues, the main reason I've yet to tune my car is I'm afraid of some reliability/longevity issues.

 

[idragmazda]

I'm interested in the future findings myself. Besides warranty issues, the main reason I've yet to tune my car is I'm afraid of some reliability/longevity issues.

I think the KTuner Stage 1 is pretty safe. Derek (my tuner) also helped developed the KTuner platform for the Type R and SIs. From what I've read / heard / been told, the KTuner Stage 1 tune is pretty safe (I ran it for a few thousand miles myself) and the owner made a post the other day saying they've had the Stage 1 out for almost a year now and there have been no issues. Derek also indicated the Stage 1 is a relatively mild tune.