Turbos

[SteveGG]

Turbine blades are driven by very hot (blue flame) exhaust gases, that drive some kind of compressor, to compress induction air for an increased charge for more power. One has to wonder what temperatures the turbine blades get to, and how they'll stand up in any long term. Then, the obvious question is, if this system depends on output as it surely does, then isn't it plagued by delays in calls for more power ? Is that what everyone means by spooling up ? And the reported "grinding" noises ? Thanks but no thanks, I stay with N/A.

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[Sman]

You make it sound like a turbo is something new. My Jetta TDi has almost 300,000 miles on it and never touched the engine/turbo other then normal maintenance. Also my 2003 Duramax has 200,000 miles on it and all i do is haul my horse trailer with it and it is hilly near me......
There is a slight delay in the extra power that the turbo gives from a dead start with the car idleing, but it is less then half a second (probably less then 1/4 second)
Don't know what the grinding noises are since I don't yet have my 2017 hatch yet.....

PS in the near future, everything will either have a turbo and/or have a hybrid system as the epa is going to require 54.5 mpg in all cars and light duty trucks by 2025

 

[pwschuh]

Turbine blades are driven by very hot (blue flame) exhaust gases, that drive some kind of compressor, ...

Some kind of compressor? Not sure why this seems to be a mystery to you, but it's called a "turbine compressor." Same basic kind of compressor in a gas turbine engine (i.e., jet engine) but very simplified. That's why it's called a "turbo."

... One has to wonder what temperatures the turbine blades get to, and how they'll stand up in any long term.

No, one does not have wonder. The temperature of exhaust gases are pretty common knowledge in the automotive industry and in the enthusiast community. I have an exhaust gas temperature gauge that tells me precisely the temperature to which the gas turbine is exposed. It is about 800 degrees F at idle and can rise as high as 1600 degrees F under load. All well within the design parameters of the turbo.

...Then, the obvious question is, if this system depends on output as it surely does, then isn't it plagued by delays in calls for more power ? Is that what everyone means by spooling up ? And the reported "grinding" noises ? Thanks but no thanks, I stay with N/A.

False dichotomy. Would you rather have a slight delay for an extra 30 HP or just not have the extra horsepower at all? Principles and practice of supercharging, including turbo-supercharging, is over 100 years old. I suspect that they have it pretty much figured out.

 

[turbo lover]

Yes, there is a slight delay in transient situations, it's often called turbo lag. The grinding sound is unrelated to the turbo. You can hear large diesel trucks that make a whistling noise when accelerating, that is a massively upscaled example of the sound that a turbo makes.

 

[Civics4Ever]

Turbo's...FTW!

 

[Newflyer3]

Is that what everyone means by spooling up ? And the reported "grinding" noises ? Thanks but no thanks, I stay with N/A.

First of all, if you read any of the grinding noise thread you'd learn that it only happens during start up intermittently, which means it's either the starter or in this case, supposedly the fuel injector system. Also, when you say "Thanks but no thanks, I stay with N/A" I don't know what it is, but your unsolicited opinion came off as condescending and irked me a bit. Somewhat tired of these posts Steve...

Also for gods sake. use a more comprehensive title for the thread...

 

[Sgtstaadanko]

This guy...

 

[SteveGG]

First of all, if you read any of the grinding noise thread you'd learn that it only happens during start up intermittently, which means it's either the starter or in this case, supposedly the fuel injector system. Also, when you say "Thanks but no thanks, I stay with N/A" I don't know what it is, but your unsolicited opinion came off as condescending and irked me a bit. Somewhat tired of these posts Steve...

Also for gods sake. use a more comprehensive title for the thread...

I thought it'd be obvious that as a new '16 Civic owner, and not exactly enthralled with the turbo, I went for the 2L N/A engine. I felt that a 1.5L engine pushed with a turbo to yield significantly more power than a 2L N/A engine, must be inherently "stressy". I always go the long term with cars so I didn't want that. I never have any "grinding" or other unexpected or unwanted sounds, and if think the grinding is unrelated to the turbo, then show me one 2L N/A guy who reports grinding. You don't like my posts ? Too bad ! And this discussion IS all about turbos.

 

[turbo lover]

Correlation does not imply causation. There are several differences between the 1.5T and 2.0. To assume that the grinding sound is because of the turbo is illogical.

 

[Newflyer3]

I thought it'd be obvious that as a new '16 Civic owner, and not exactly enthralled with the turbo, I went for the 2L N/A engine. I felt that a 1.5L engine pushed with a turbo to yield significantly more power than a 2L N/A engine, must be inherently "stressy". I always go the long term with cars so I didn't want that. I never have any "grinding" or other unexpected or unwanted sounds, and if think the grinding is unrelated to the turbo, then show me one 2L N/A guy who reports grinding. You don't like my posts ? Too bad ! And this discussion IS all about turbos.

I never said that the grinding was unrelated to the 1.5T because I know it is. You don't have direct injection so you'll never face that problem. I think everyone knows that you're old school and you're not too happy about the turbo due to longevity issues that you can't tangibly prove and that you're basing off principle alone. That's like saying if I buy a 2001 Honda Accord V6 w/ 5AT and think on principle that that's a bulletproof powertrain, only for the tranny to blow up at 40k miles... Quite frankly, no one cares about your unsolicited opinion.

Do you realize that pretty much all the responses you've gather on this post have asked you what the big deal is or how this seems like the first time you've seen Turbos? Europeans have used this technology for a solid period of 15 years with unreliability in German vehicles arising from electrical issues more so than the powertrain. In fact, breakdowns and problems relating to powertrains on German vehicles are practically non existent despite the early adoption of technology like Turbocharging, Direct Injection and other things.

 

[SteveGG]

I thought it'd be obvious that as a new '16 Civic owner, and not exactly enthralled with the turbo, I went for the 2L N/A engine. I felt that a 1.5L engine pushed with a turbo to yield significantly more power than a 2L N/A engine, must be inherently "stressy". I always go the long term with cars so I didn't want that. I never have any "grinding" or other unexpected or unwanted sounds, and if think the grinding is unrelated to the turbo, then show me one 2L N/A guy who reports grinding. You don't like my posts ? Too bad ! And this discussion IS all about turbos.

PS Just a thought. A turbo at startup is N/A unless something exotic is used. Doesn't that suggest something ?

 

[Newflyer3]

HOLD ON, have we established in this conversation that the grinding nose is unrelated to the Turbocharger and that it's from the direct, fuel injection system?

 

[Negan]

Turbine blades are driven by very hot (blue flame) exhaust gases, that drive some kind of compressor, to compress induction air for an increased charge for more power. One has to wonder what temperatures the turbine blades get to, and how they'll stand up in any long term.

Turbine blades in airplane jet engines run at 5 degrees Celsius below the melting point. "Very hot" is a very relative term. If the cooling and the material are appropriate, sheer temperature is meaningless.

 

[DarkLight]

You make it sound like a turbo is something new. My Jetta TDi has almost 300,000 miles on it and never touched the engine/turbo other then normal maintenance. Also my 2003 Duramax has 200,000 miles on it and all i do is haul my horse trailer with it and it is hilly near me......
There is a slight delay in the extra power that the turbo gives from a dead start with the car idleing, but it is less then half a second (probably less then 1/4 second)
Don't know what the grinding noises are since I don't yet have my 2017 hatch yet.....

PS in the near future, everything will either have a turbo and/or have a hybrid system as the epa is going to require 54.5 mpg in all cars and light duty trucks by 2025

You absolutely cannot compare a TDI to a turbo'd gasser. First of all, diesels have no throttle plate and MAP is always at or above atmospheric. Second, they use variable nozzle turbos, which are not found in any other type of turbo car, except for a few high-end Porsche 911's. So, the lag is virtually nonexistent compared to anything else.

My last car was a 98 Beetle TDI. At 150K miles, the labyrinth seals in the turbo failed in spectacular fashion, nearly hydro-locking the engine when a quart or two of oil suddenly found it's way into the intercooler piping.

10K miles later, the "ear" on the block which holds the passenger side engine mount sheared off and caused the engine to nearly fall out of the car, which took out the A/C compressor, power steering, and nearly tore the timing belt. That alone cost over $3K in repairs, and I did most of the work myself.

The 1.8T is just as bad.

Never again will I own anything that is turbocharged from VAG.

 

[Touring]

Thanks but no thanks, I stay with N/A.

And I'll stay with my superior acceleration and fuel economy!

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