Turbo vs VTEC feel

[Aero2001]

One concern is that those positive reviews were from automotive journalists who received early access, airfare, hotel accommodations, and other perks from Honda. They can't say too many bad things or they won't get the VIP treatment in the future.

Consumer Reports is the only professional review based on an Si they actually purchased with their own money from a Honda dealership. They said the steering "comes up a little short on feedback" and that the suspension "is a big letdown" and that the ride "is really stiff and choppy".

I'll reserve judgement until I pick up my Si tomorrow evening.

Oh, I noticed that CR review, and it gave me some concern because, despite views to the contrary, they are real enthusiasts who care about how a car drives. I also understand the issues with the automotive journalists, but Car & Driver take steering feel very seriously, and they had positive words about the Si's steering. They also aren't afraid to call out manufacturers who disappoint them in this regard, like BMW with the horrible steering in the F30 3 Series.

But I'm totally with you about reserving judgment until driving it for myself, and I'm looking forward to your review!

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[zroger73]

Oh, I noticed that CR review, and it gave me some concern because, despite views to the contrary, they are real enthusiasts who care about how a car drives. I also understand the issues with the automotive journalists, but Car & Driver take steering feel very seriously, and they had positive words about the Si's steering. They also aren't afraid to call out manufacturers who disappoint them in this regard, like BMW with the horrible steering in the F30 3 Series.

But I'm totally with you about reserving judgment until driving it for myself, and I'm looking forward to your review!

A few factors that may have influenced CR's opinion...

1) The reviewer who felt the steering was numb and the ride was stiff may have driven to work in a $50K Lexus GS immediately before hopping into the Si for a review.

2) The car was obviously brand new. Perhaps it needs some time and miles on it before it can be fairly criticized.

3) Although unlikely, perhaps there was a problem with the car's electronic steering and/or suspension systems that resulted in an unfair opinion.

We'll see if CR's opinion changes after a more complete and long-term review.

Considering my daily driver for the last year has been a 2017 Honda Ridgeline and I'll be riding in a 2016 Toyota Tacoma on the 250-mile journey to the dealer, I'd imagine the Si will feel like a $250,000 exotic sports car.

 

[pukemon]

Oh, I noticed that CR review, and it gave me some concern because, despite views to the contrary, they are real enthusiasts who care about how a car drives. I also understand the issues with the automotive journalists, but Car & Driver take steering feel very seriously, and they had positive words about the Si's steering. They also aren't afraid to call out manufacturers who disappoint them in this regard, like BMW with the horrible steering in the F30 3 Series.

But I'm totally with you about reserving judgment until driving it for myself, and I'm looking forward to your review!

Was that the BMW that felt frantic in sport mode and tame when you out steering in comfort mode? I saw a review of a beemer recenrly, not sure which model or year, but the sport steering was madness.

Btw, what part of Texas are you from? PM if you don't want it public.

 

[skycrapper]

Let's not get all hung up with "it will be better for daily driving" stuff. Can the car out-perform the 8/9th Gen Si and compete with it's competitors in a straight line? That's really the bottom line. If this car is faster, I'll like pick one up at some point. If not, it doesn't make sense to spend 25k on a car that doesn't perform better then a 10 year old version of itself.

 

[TTRPGGeek]

Let's not get all hung up with "it will be better for daily driving" stuff. Can the car out-perform the 8/9th Gen Si and compete with it's competitors in a straight line? That's really the bottom line. If this car is faster, I'll like pick one up at some point. If not, it doesn't make sense to spend 25k on a car that doesn't perform better then a 10 year old version of itself.

Different strokes for different folks. For you straight line performance is the bottom line. Cool. For me, fun daily driver is the bottom line. Its all good.

That and I definitely don't fit in a ten year old Civic so, there's that.

 

[Metfanant]

Let's not get all hung up with "it will be better for daily driving" stuff. Can the car out-perform the 8/9th Gen Si and compete with it's competitors in a straight line? That's really the bottom line. If this car is faster, I'll like pick one up at some point. If not, it doesn't make sense to spend 25k on a car that doesn't perform better then a 10 year old version of itself.

why would you simply ignore the fact that the power curve of this car is objectively better for driving around town...low end power is MUCH more useable on the street than making power at 7k+ rpm...its just a fact...

 

[skycrapper]

Different strokes for different folks. For you straight line performance is the bottom line. Cool. For me, fun daily driver is the bottom line. Its all good.

That and I definitely don't fit in a ten year old Civic so, there's that.

Would you want to jump from a clean 2015 Si to a 17, if the car runs slower times? It's not all about straight line, however it's 2017 and the car should be able to compete with FORD sport compacts, hyundai's and have an edge on the older generations in a straight line. That's one of the reasons you upgrade to the newer Si. People wanted a 2.0 with 250hp. Nobody has legit times yet, so it's all speculation at this point. Despite some reviews, I can't see how it could be slower based on power to weight. We'll have to wait for the actual times to find out the deal

 

[pukemon]

Let's not get all hung up with "it will be better for daily driving" stuff. Can the car out-perform the 8/9th Gen Si and compete with it's competitors in a straight line? That's really the bottom line. If this car is faster, I'll like pick one up at some point. If not, it doesn't make sense to spend 25k on a car that doesn't perform better then a 10 year old version of itself.

Lol. We're not all driving like a bat out of hell in traffic. I drive fast but there is a time and place for that.

For some people this is a nice upgrade in fuel efficiency. Updated suspension. Steering. Infotainment. Push button parking brake. LEDs. Heck even CVT for those so inclined. I hope nobody is going upside down to get these features but it works for some people. A lot of people actually.

Part of the reason I jumped on the GTI was analog needles and manual parking brake believe it or not. I really like the LCD dash clusters and the ones that do more like navigation right in front of you are cool too. The GTI was a car that said get me if the steering, suspension and shifting were on point, oh and comfortable seat. Nailed it. If there are still stick shifts next round, I'll probably be back in a Honda/Acura. If Honda NSX's ever stop holding value I might be in one of those. $50k is the cheapest I've seen lately in my area. Proximity entry and push to start be damned. Anyways sounds like you might looking for linear power. Might be disappointed in a turbo SI. You'll have to plan your devious bat out of hell maneuvers more strategically.

 

[Metfanant]

Would you want to jump from a clean 2015 Si to a 17, if the car runs slower times? It's not all about straight line, however it's 2017 and the car should be able to compete with FORD sport compacts, hyundai's and have an edge on the older generations in a straight line. That's one of the reasons you upgrade to the newer Si. People wanted a 2.0 with 250hp. Nobody has legit times yet, so it's all speculation at this point. Despite some reviews, I can't see how it could be slower based on power to weight. We'll have to wait for the actual times to find out the deal

yes 100%...even if performance were completely equal...

the 10th gen is exponentially better looking, the chassis is a significant upgrade in every area...its just a better overall car in just about every imaginable way

 

[TTRPGGeek]

Would you want to jump from a clean 2015 Si to a 17 if the car runs slower times? It's not all about straight line, however it's 2017 and the car should be able to compete with FORD sport compacts, hyundai's and have an edge on the older generations in a straight line. That's one of the reasons you upgrade to the newer Si. Nobody has legit times yet, so it's all speculation at this point. I can't see how it could be slower based on power to weight though

Oh sure I hear ya and no I wouldn't make that jump. But I'm not an owner of a prior SI - I'm driving a 2016 Accord. And I'm not interested in racing anywhere, on a track or at a random red light. So the true test for ME is, do I want to trade in the Accord roominess for the SI fun. If a test drive convinces me yes, then I will. If no, then I'll drop a few bucks upgrading the weak ass Accord sound system, look forward to wearing out the Conti's and replacing them with Michelins, and otherwise put my first world problem of what high quality, reliable late model vehicle I want the most behind me.

he he... gotta admit - if one of the most challenging decisions one is making in a given year is what great new car to buy, whether one is mulling a new 911 Turbo vs a GT3, a new Accord vs a Civic, or a new Kia vs a Hyundai, one's got it pretty good. #firstworldproblems

 

[skycrapper]

yes 100%...even if performance were completely equal...

the 10th gen is exponentially better looking, the chassis is a significant upgrade in every area...its just a better overall car in just about every imaginable way

A clean 15 is still a nice car. If I were to dump a car only 2 years old, I'd like the newer model to run the same times or better. If the car pulls respectable times, I'll probably pick one up. Everything else is tittts

 

[skycrapper]

Oh sure I hear ya and no I wouldn't make that jump. But I'm not an owner of a prior SI - I'm driving a 2016 Accord. And I'm not interested in racing anywhere, on a track or at a random red light. So the true test for ME is, do I want to trade in the Accord roominess for the SI fun. If a test drive convinces me yes, then I will. If no, then I'll drop a few bucks upgrading the weak ass Accord sound system, look forward to wearing out the Conti's and replacing them with Michelins, and otherwise put my first world problem of what high quality, reliable late model vehicle I want the most behind me.

he he... gotta admit - if one of the most challenging decisions one is making in a given year is what great new car to buy, whether one is mulling a new 911 Turbo vs a GT3, a new Accord vs a Civic, or a new Kia vs a Hyundai, one's got it pretty good. #firstworldproblems

I had an older Accord and had a 2016 Accord Sport Loaner for a couple weeks. I love Accords. The loaner was a nice car, however I couldn't wait to get back in the Si. You just can't compare the driver enjoyment imho. There fun cars to drive

 

[Metfanant]

A clean 15 is still a nice car. If I were to dump a car only 2 years old, I'd like the newer model to run the same times or better. If the car pulls respectable times, I'll probably pick one up. Everything else is tittts

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the '15...it's just that the '17 is a significant improvement in just about every way from an engineering and design standpoint...there is no way around the fact that the entire chassis of the 10th gen cars is a significant upgrade over the 9th gen cars...

We can argue about power numbers out of the box all you want, and maybe it might be a driver's race in a straight line...

But get in a situation where you need to turn the steering wheel, or use the pedal in the middle? I don't think the '15 is going to keep up, or be as fun

 

[skycrapper]

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the '15...it's just that the '17 is a significant improvement in just about every way from an engineering and design standpoint...there is no way around the fact that the entire chassis of the 10th gen cars is a significant upgrade over the 9th gen cars...

We can argue about power numbers out of the box all you want, and maybe it might be a driver's race in a straight line...

But get in a situation where you need to turn the steering wheel, or use the pedal in the middle? I don't think the '15 is going to keep up, or be as fun

Good points. You've sold me on the car

 

[Aero2001]

A few factors that may have influenced CR's opinion...

1) The reviewer who felt the steering was numb and the ride was stiff may have driven to work in a $50K Lexus GS immediately before hopping into the Si for a review. . . .

Yes to this and your other points, but, in addition, CR undoubtedly didn't drive their Si solely on Honda's proving grounds and what appear in the vids to be very smooth roads. IMO, this is a huge reason to question press drive opinions about ride quality -- wait until the journos drive it around Detroit in March! CR's headquarters are in CT, so their roads experience real winters, and if they're like ours here in Philly, they could still have some nasty potholes.

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