Tuned Hatch vs Si vs WRX

[Feddy_Ace]

I have an si 2017 and my friend an hatch 2018 sport and we are bot on tsp stage 1 map 3 . A sport hatch tuned will ez beat an si stock and wrx . When we pull I like only 1/2 car in front .

This is what a lot of people say and even some YT reviewers. The gap between the hatch and SI isn’t quite as wide as some people believe. A tuned hatch will either keep up with or outright beat a stock SI on street pulls. The LSD and suspension makes the SI better around the track, but that can be marginal if the hatch’s chassis and suspension are properly upgraded/tuned. The SI has a higher top speed though and will get the hatch with top end power.

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[alxgravel]

This is what a lot of people say and even some YT reviewers. The gap between the hatch and SI isn’t quite as wide as some people believe. A tuned hatch will either keep up with or outright beat a stock SI on street pulls. The LSD and suspension makes the SI better around the track, but that can be marginal if the hatch’s chassis and suspension are properly upgraded/tuned. The SI has a higher top speed though and will get the hatch with top end power.

Yea the big difference its the suspension and lds. If he pull and I dont pull it now he is gone and I cant beat him.

 

[zspeed]

This is what a lot of people say and even some YT reviewers. The gap between the hatch and SI isn’t quite as wide as some people believe. A tuned hatch will either keep up with or outright beat a stock SI on street pulls. The LSD and suspension makes the SI better around the track, but that can be marginal if the hatch’s chassis and suspension are properly upgraded/tuned. The SI has a higher top speed though and will get the hatch with top end power.

Don’t forget the bigger brakes that gives the Si better braking performance.

 

[2020PWPV2]

This is what a lot of people say and even some YT reviewers. The gap between the hatch and SI isn’t quite as wide as some people believe. A tuned hatch will either keep up with or outright beat a stock SI on street pulls. The LSD and suspension makes the SI better around the track, but that can be marginal if the hatch’s chassis and suspension are properly upgraded/tuned. The SI has a higher top speed though and will get the hatch with top end power.

It is a giant pain in the ass to get an aftermarket LSD though. Even the Si one is not the best it is pretty mildly tuned for binding. Si is mostly just for cornering, I'm trying to get a ktuner and then I'll flash my 2020.

Stage 2 Non Si - Ktuner Map (look at the torque cuves)

Si Ktuner

Looks like the Si holds the torque better down low the HP looks pretty similar the Si seems to rev out a little better and not lose torque. Might be better for a non Si to short shift, maybe it would be closer then.

 

[Feddy_Ace]

It is a giant pain in the ass to get an aftermarket LSD though. Even the Si one is not the best it is pretty mildly tuned for binding. Si is mostly just for cornering, I'm trying to get a ktuner and then I'll flash my 2020.

Stage 2 Non Si - Ktuner Map (look at the torque cuves)

Si Ktuner

Looks like the Si holds the torque better down low the HP looks pretty similar the Si seems to rev out a little better and not lose torque. Might be better for a non Si to short shift, maybe it would be closer then.

Very cool to see. The SI is definitely optimized for performance. Once tuning comes into play it’s no contest in favor of the SI. However, I’ve been consistently impressed by what my hatch can do even while still on the stock tune. I’m not concerned with being a speed demon, just some solid highway pulls for my daily commute and shocking the occasional hot bois in tacky BRZs that try to flex on me lol.

 

[2020PWPV2]

Very cool to see. The SI is definitely optimized for performance. Once tuning comes into play it’s no contest in favor of the SI. However, I’ve been consistently impressed by what my hatch can do even while still on the stock tune. I’m not concerned with being a speed demon, just some solid highway pulls for my daily commute and shocking the occasional hot bois in tacky BRZs that try to flex on me lol.

Yeah haha, I usually just send my car on the freeway ramps. Even if I'm tuned I'll still probably get gapped by Camrys. Blessed with a v8 moostang for racing haha.

 

[DoubleDown]

I'm thinking about trading my Sport for an SI coupe. One thing that doesn't get mentioned, the 1.5t base engine is very limited in terms of power gains from mods. The biggest handicap is the fuel pump. Having slightly smaller rods doesn’t help either. The SI is just a better platform for performance upgrades. However, after 3 years of ownership, I still find myself looking back at the car when exiting the vehicle. I absolutely love the way the hatch looks, but that's the only thing that I like unfortunately.

 

[Gruber]

Very cool to see. The SI is definitely optimized for performance. Once tuning comes into play it’s no contest in favor of the SI. However, I’ve been consistently impressed by what my hatch can do even while still on the stock tune. I’m not concerned with being a speed demon, just some solid highway pulls for my daily commute and shocking the occasional hot bois in tacky BRZs that try to flex on me lol.

Yeah, I'm satisfied that being stock I just put a hot boi in an Escalade, who tried to flex me, behind my belt. I stopped in the right lane on a red light by the big SUV that I just passed. He had changed the lane first right to left and then quickly back to pull up next to me in the right lane obviously trying to get in front of me. But that right lane merges to my lane just some sixty yards after the crossing, and he was fully aware of it. So I knew he wanted to be first and he would go all out on green.
Well, off he went, and I let him pull his nose out by one foot first, but then he was left behind and had to give up. These behemoths are reportedly getting 0-60 easily below 7 seconds and allegedly below 6? as they claim below. I did need to go WOT for a moment to outrun the bastard.
https://media.cadillac.com/media/us/en/cadillac/vehicles/escalade-escalade-esv/2020.html

 

[Feddy_Ace]

Yeah, I'm satisfied that being stock I just put a hot boi in an Escalade, who tried to flex me, behind my belt. I stopped in the right lane on a red light by the big SUV that I just passed. He had changed the lane first right to left and then quickly back to pull up next to me in the right lane obviously trying to get in front of me. But that right lane merges to my lane just some sixty yards after the crossing, and he was fully aware of it. So I knew he wanted to be first and he would go all out on green.
Well, off he went, and I let him pull his nose out by one foot first, but then he was left behind and had to give up. These behemoths are reportedly getting 0-60 easily below 7 seconds and allegedly below 6? as they claim below. I did need to go WOT for a moment to outrun the bastard.
https://media.cadillac.com/media/us/en/cadillac/vehicles/escalade-escalade-esv/2020.html

If that elephant can legit do 0-60 in under 7 seconds that’s pretty damn impressive. I think a lot of people would be shocked by how fast the Civic is. Last run I did was 6.2s with pretty mild upgrades on my car like intake, ignition, and whiles. If I had summer tires I might just get close to 6 flat.

The problem for me is the CVT is so inconsistent with how it sends power. Like sometimes it will absolutely rip and sometimes it’s just apathetic. It usually takes a few runs to get it to wake up a little. The ECU always seems like it’s overthinking.

 

[2tone]

This is what a lot of people say and even some YT reviewers. The gap between the hatch and SI isn’t quite as wide as some people believe. A tuned hatch will either keep up with or outright beat a stock SI on street pulls. The LSD and suspension makes the SI better around the track, but that can be marginal if the hatch’s chassis and suspension are properly upgraded/tuned. The SI has a higher top speed though and will get the hatch with top end power.

Rods too, but that probably only matters once you custom tune, ethanol etc. the gap gets bigger with more and more work done.

 

[Feddy_Ace]

Rods too, but that probably only matters once you custom tune, ethanol etc. the gap gets bigger with more and more work done.

Yup, almost forgot about that part. From what we’ve seen with others on the forum, it’s really when you start getting excessive with bolt-ons, flex fuel, and custom tunes the base 1.5 starts having troubles. It seems to handle SI-like power numbers just fine on the stock internals.

 

[xbbnx]

I think a WRX is a better track car

Why do you think so and do you have any evidence of this?

 

[gtman]

It's pretty clear from all the dynos I've seen that Honda clearly understated the output of the base 1.5 turbo by quite a bit. I think they did that to not "step on the toes" of the Si. Even stock, my turbo sedan with that maligned CVT is just a tick off from an Si in a straight line test. And the sedan is a hair faster than the turbo hatches probably due to slightly less weight/better aerodynamics.

On the other hand, the Si is about handling and my car wouldn't come close to keeping up on a windy road. But with my TSP tune and some upcoming suspension mods including sticky new tires, my car will be a lot more fun and capable around the twisties.

And for the record, tuned, I've handily beaten an Si and WRX on the thighway (I assume they were stock).

Personal best 5.7 to 60 on an aggressively tweaked KTuner starter 21. TSP 1 feels even more potent.

 

[Phy]

Why do you think so and do you have any evidence of this?

More HP and AWD from stock

 

[xbbnx]

More HP and AWD from stock

As you can see from Car and driver's lightning lap track events, the Si at #209 is faster than the WRX..in fact you can see multiple WRX's below the Si. The only WRX that was faster was the one with a performance pack which was only 3 seconds faster (not in the snapshot), every other non PP WRX will be slower than an Si on most tracks. The WRX is too heavy, not as sharp and direct as an Si, and will understeer more than an Si. Also once moving the extra horsepower that the WRX has over the Si doesnt really matter because of power to weight.

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