Trying to Heel-Toe in this thing

OneMiggle

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As the title says.

This is my first manual car and the only "experience" of heel-toeing I have is in racing sims. I have big feet (size 13) yet I have a ton of trouble trying to heel-toe in this car.

I've heard of Acuity's pedal adjustment but I don't really wanna make the purchase if it isn't absolutely necessary.

I'll never be as good as Senna but I want to track my Si, and I just feel like heel-toeing is a necessary skill with any manual car.

Also, it could also be difficult to try in daily driving since I never really have to push hard on the brakes. So the only practice I could really get is on the track or maybe on the twisty roads.

Anybody have any tips on heel-toeing the Si? And maybe some track driving tips as well? I'm thinking about going by the end of the season.

I'm kinda jealous about the Type-R's rev matching feature now. But I love and enjoy the raw and direct experience with the Si. 😎





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saiko21

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Since you have size 13 feet check this video.

 

st4xor

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Acuity pedal spacer, the stationary practice technique in this video (below), and then some quality time on an empty back road did the trick for me (size 12). I found that I actually had to slide my seat back a couple clicks to get my feet angled in the right direction. Also try a couple different pairs of shoes.

 

077

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I am also trying to get in the habit of doing it so I do it on the track. I have the Acuity pedal spacer. First, I don't feel comfortable with the inside, outside of foot, but much prefer an actual heel-toe. So the key for me is hitting the brake with my foot at the right angle in right position, which goes against habit. Second, I found on the track that IF I remember before starting to brake for a turn then it works fine to match revs, it goes smoothly without any fine control of the heel on the accelerator pedal. But on the street, it isn't smooth, brake pedal is higher, rev matching is harder. But that doesn't matter. The key is to get the habit, which for me basically means always getting foot position on the brake pedal right. Then it works on the track without any further thought. So my practice on the street is (1) right foot position on brake (2) always remember to shift down before starting turn, rather than after.
 

Joerodd

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FWIW I have small feet so I dont know if this will help. I havent gotten the Acuity spacer yet, and I was dead set on it until I got a downshift right by accident the other day.

Getting used to the new pedals, i have been driving with my Puma Speed Cats exclusively, until I get a better feel for the car. If you arent familiar, they have a narrow sole, but the heel section is relatively firm and gives me good pedal feedback. I was used to just mashing the floor mounted gas pedal in my e36 and it pretty much did all the work so i have hard to relearn this whole process in my Si.

That being said I have found that for now I really have to think about it as I approach the corner, like 077 mentioned, and I let the ball of my foot roll off the side of the brake pedal and use the outside of the hard heel to blip the throttle. It has taken some practices, but I have been getting better at it in the last couple days. Hopefully, I turns in to second nature like my e36.

I think it is also worth mentioning that throttle response plays a factor in this equation too and I am looking forward to running Ktuner and a lightweight flywheel in the future.
 
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OneMiggle

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FWIW I have small feet so I dont know if this will help. I havent gotten the Acuity spacer yet, and I was dead set on it until I got a downshift right by accident the other day.

Getting used to the new pedals, i have been driving with my Puma Speed Cats exclusively, until I get a better feel for the car. If you arent familiar, they have a narrow sole, but the heel section is relatively firm and gives me good pedal feedback. I was used to just mashing the floor mounted gas pedal in my e36 and it pretty much did all the work so i have hard to relearn this whole process in my Si.

That being said I have found that for now I really have to think about it as I approach the corner, like 077 mentioned, and I let the ball of my foot roll off the side of the brake pedal and use the outside of the hard heel to blip the throttle. It has taken some practices, but I have been getting better at it in the last couple days. Hopefully, I turns in to second nature like my e36.

I think it is also worth mentioning that throttle response plays a factor in this equation too and I am looking forward to running Ktuner and a lightweight flywheel in the future.
Yeah, I think throttle response does play a factor. It feels especially difficult to blip the throttle in this car, which is exactly why I'm having trouble. Most of the time, I'm not blipping enough to downshift properly.
 
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I am also trying to get in the habit of doing it so I do it on the track. I have the Acuity pedal spacer. First, I don't feel comfortable with the inside, outside of foot, but much prefer an actual heel-toe. So the key for me is hitting the brake with my foot at the right angle in right position, which goes against habit. Second, I found on the track that IF I remember before starting to brake for a turn then it works fine to match revs, it goes smoothly without any fine control of the heel on the accelerator pedal. But on the street, it isn't smooth, brake pedal is higher, rev matching is harder. But that doesn't matter. The key is to get the habit, which for me basically means always getting foot position on the brake pedal right. Then it works on the track without any further thought. So my practice on the street is (1) right foot position on brake (2) always remember to shift down before starting turn, rather than after.
I really want to practice heel-toe but it's kinda hard to find a safe space to try it before hitting the track. I wanna do a track day before the end of summer but I don't know if I'll learn in time.
 

st4xor

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I really want to practice heel-toe but it's kinda hard to find a safe space to try it before hitting the track. I wanna do a track day before the end of summer but I don't know if I'll learn in time.
Like Mr. Savage Goose suggests in his YouTube video, go warm up your car and then find an empty parking lot somewhere. Put on the parking brake, and then set your dash display to throttle/brake pressure. Try out a couple different foot positions, seat positions, pairs of shoes, etc. While trying to keep brake pressure (dash display) steady, practice trying to hit a specific RPM target (1.5k, 2k, whatever) with a throttle blip. Do a bunch of experimentation and figure out what feels the most natural.

If you can do this "comfortably", then you're ready to find an empty (preferably straight) stretch of road somewhere. It is a lot harder to do once you are moving, but you should be able to build on your stationary practice.

If you can't find a comfortable technique stationary in the parking lot, then maybe get one of the throttle pedal spacers.

I was in your exact position a couple of weeks ago, and now I can sneak some practice in occasionally on my commute. It took maybe two parking lot sessions before I made time to find some empty road. My first HPDE will be in Sept.
 

AegeanT

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I practiced on streets at night time where there was next to no traffic. My feet are size 11, normal width, and I’ve pretty much got it down pat. But it took me over a month to get used to it.
I have the top of my foot angled to the right, just touching the edge of the gas pedal, and it’s just enough room to do it.
 

SCcanyoncrvr

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I wear size 9.5-10 depending on shoes which is obviously smaller. I do have the acuity pedal spacer which does make it much easier. I’m sure with more options to position you should find a setting that will help.
 
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OneMiggle

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Like Mr. Savage Goose suggests in his YouTube video, go warm up your car and then find an empty parking lot somewhere. Put on the parking brake, and then set your dash display to throttle/brake pressure. Try out a couple different foot positions, seat positions, pairs of shoes, etc. While trying to keep brake pressure (dash display) steady, practice trying to hit a specific RPM target (1.5k, 2k, whatever) with a throttle blip. Do a bunch of experimentation and figure out what feels the most natural.

If you can do this "comfortably", then you're ready to find an empty (preferably straight) stretch of road somewhere. It is a lot harder to do once you are moving, but you should be able to build on your stationary practice.

If you can't find a comfortable technique stationary in the parking lot, then maybe get one of the throttle pedal spacers.

I was in your exact position a couple of weeks ago, and now I can sneak some practice in occasionally on my commute. It took maybe two parking lot sessions before I made time to find some empty road. My first HPDE will be in Sept.
I tried it for the first time tonight. I pulled it off a couple of times. I think, for the most part, this is gonna be track maneuver for me. It's pretty difficult to do it "smoothly" on the road. Double clutching works fine for me in daily driving, which is usually the case.

I've found comfort in sitting a little farther back than I'm used to and I don't really have much trouble blipping the throttle with just a quick tap to the right with my heel.

I will say that this is gonna make me cramp like crazy because I'm not used to it. I actually cramped my left foot a few times when I first learned how to drive manual.

Anyway, thanks for the advice, it worked!
 

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