Trouble At The Dealership...

CountVonLux

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Hi everyone I'd truly appreciate any help you could give me, I know this will be long. I own a 2017 Honda Hatchback Sport with the CVT transmission. I know the car very well, the RPMs it hits on the highway, the mileage it gets, and I also drive as an enthusiast with the paddle shifters.

Anyway it was time for my oil change and the recall on the 3 way coolant valve. So I took the car into the dealer and was treated not so great. First of all they hadn't heard of the recall and looked it up; then acted very surprised that I had told the truth. lol. I also told them that it shouldn't be that hard to get to, they really didn't reply.

So I go in and wait and an hour later the guy comes back and says, "Hey that coolant valve really wasn't that hard to get to!" He acted very surprised and suddenly treated me very nice (call me paranoid but that was just fishy).

So I drive home and everything seems fine for a few days. Then I start noticing the RPMs are much higher on the interstate 500-700 rpms higher at 70mph (one of the calling cards of this transmission was the amazingly low RPMs on the highway). It also had to rev much higher to produce power and the CVT became erratic - revving super high without putting down power when I have it some gas.

I was also averaging about 5-6mpg less than before in normal driving. THEN I tried sport mode with the paddle shifters which I love to use. First of all usually I need to shift to 2nd around 20-25mph, but I could now go close to 40 in first, and 70 in 3rd. It's like the gears had become unbelievably long. Also when I would hit the gas the RPM's would drop by about 4-500, then start back up like normal. Torque in low rpms was really low and sluggish.

So I knew something was wrong. I took it to another dealer (I didn't want that dealer touching it again) and they also treated me a bit cold, when I told them the symptoms they asked if it had any warning lights on. When I said no they immediately tried to dissuade me from pursuing the issue, saying that "CVT transmission are like that - I hate them".

I then proceeded to tell him that I love to drive and that this CVT "used" to be quite responsive. I asked if they could diagnose a car without a warning light and he said yes, so they agreed to look at it.

I wait again. The guy comes out acting surprised and says, "That car had 1.5 liters too much oil in it!"

So they drained it and put the right amount back in. They told me to drive it a while and let it "relearn". They said they couldn't find anything mechanically wrong, but I wonder if the guys at the first dealership might have taken apart the intake, turbo etc. and not put it back together correctly?

It's driving better but still feels "off". Gas mileage is down, it runs at 2500 rpms at 70 on the interstate (used to fall back to 2k or lower), it revs to quickly causing the green fuel saving like to disappear really quickly when the gas is touched on the interstate. It bogs down if the gas is hit quickly in succession, the rpms still dip when you give it gas in each simulated gear. Gears are all still really long, torque is much reduced, below 2500 rpms the car has very little power. Gas mileage is still down a bit.

I'm trying to figure this out. It's bad enough right now that I might trade the car in and get something else. It is not undrivable, but it's about 80% of the car I had before the oil change issue. I go out for spirited drives and it's not driving good at all.

So I'm wondering what you guys thing and if you think it will "relearn" the gearing ratios that I loved so much? Should I take it to a regular mechanic that will actually try to find the issue? Any thoughts on these symptoms?

Thanks so much for reading all of this and I hope to find an answer!

Jay

 

davidgostbo

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Probably has something to do with winter fuel and the cold affecting your mpg.
 

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If they pulled the battery during the repair (why???) then it may have to relearn the idle settings. Check the "Testing of Readiness Codes" at the end of the owners manual. I think that is the procedure to relearn the idle.
 
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CountVonLux

CountVonLux

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Yeah, I don't trust them, don't know what they did. Thank you for that tip, I'll check that out and see if I can follow the procedure. Although at idle it seems fine, but that doesn't mean that a relearning of idle wouldn't fix the issue.
 

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That much overfilled may have been very bad for your motor. Now I say may as it could or couldn't have caused issues in your cylinder head if there was a lot of blow by due to the overfill. Also depends on how long you drove it with the overfill condition.
 


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CountVonLux

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That much overfilled may have been very bad for your motor. Now I say may as it could or couldn't have caused issues in your cylinder head if there was a lot of blow by due to the overfill. Also depends on how long you drove it with the overfill condition.
Yes, that's what I'm afraid of. I drove it for about 2 weeks like that. If that is the case and it doesn't return to normal in a week or two (after the idle reset), I'm going to take it to one more dealer. If they can't fix it or refuse to acknowledge something is wrong I may have to contact Honda or trade it in to a Honda Dealer, because I'd sure feel bad trading to like a Ford dealer or something. But if they ran inspection on it and it passed I guess I shouldn't feel bad...I really just wish this hadn't happened.
 

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My dealership also way over filled my oil. They don't seem to be paying attention to what they are doing.
 
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CountVonLux

CountVonLux

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My dealership also way over filled my oil. They don't seem to be paying attention to what they are doing.
It's really sad that they don't take their job any more seriously than they do. We just have to double check everything i guess!
 
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CountVonLux

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How long does it take for the car to "relearn" idle settings after the reset? Anyone know?
 

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I believe I'd have the dealer check the oil level after a change. I'd watch the service advisor, etc. remove the dipstick and verify the level is good before driving away.

I've always changed mine at home so I haven't had this issue. Of course I check the level immediately after the change to verify it isn't too low. After a day or so of driving I check the level again and add if necessary to reach the top mark.
 


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CountVonLux

CountVonLux

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OK, so I found out the "Readiness Codes are not set". So that means they disconnected the battery during the coolant joint replacement. I don't know why, but they obviously did. The check engine light flashes 5 times instead of going off. That indicates the readiness codes aren't set. So I'm going to go through the procedure to set the readiness codes and see if that resolves the issue. I'll keep you guys updated. Thank you fk8 4343 for the help, you gave me the clue I needed!
 

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I then proceeded to tell him that I love to drive and that this CVT "used" to be quite responsive. I asked if they could diagnose a car without a warning light and he said yes, so they agreed to look at it.
This is amusing because one of the service advisors at the dealer I bought my car from told me they couldn't do anything with the car if it didn't set a code light. I think the problem stems from having "service writers" that have no real experience working on cars like they did back in the day. I realize they can't possibly know every nut and bolt on ever car they sell but, when the customer knows far more about the car than the service writer, there is a problem. The problem with an overfill (An old mechanic told me this years ago) is that the crankshaft splasing causes the oil to aerate or foam and it doesn't lubricate as well. It could also cause some oil consumption since too much oil gets in places where shouldn't be in that quantity.
 
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PMMonly4HATCH

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I drove with overfilled since FF so 10,000 miles. I finally had them put on the ticket, 'concerned oil was overfilled' and would you believe that something so trivial caused them to respond and when I checked (now will check right at the dealer) when I got home (big no no, always let the car sit for a few minutes and check before leaving the dealer service) it was right below the top hash mark. The thing I noticed is the oil wasn't as light colored after the 2nd oil change as it was after the first. Anyone notice this, could this just be normal or could they have not changed the oil and just removed enough to bring it below the top hashmark? So paranoid about the dealers now. They didn't rotate my tires on last visit and now I suspect they might not have ever. So hard.
 

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I've brought my Odyssey in for 2 or 3 TSBs and have them printed out when I brought it in.

Each time, they act like they'd never seen/heard of the TSBs before and even put up a front that I had fabricated them, until they verified that, indeed, they were legit. I've been consistently disappointed with service departments. Not just about their pricing... or the quality of work... but the apparent ignorance they have in their own products. I can forgive a lot... but Honda not knowing Honda's? That's crazy. I know it isn't the Navy and they probably don't do a morning muster and do constant training (most of it would be OTJ)... but when a new TSB is issued, it's obvious the service managers aren't being informed and trickling that down so when the service advisors are working with customers, they're not able to do a 'on the seat' diagnosis using their knowledge of the TSBs as a guide. It gives specific instructions and allows the department to charge Honda for the work. I did a take back on mine as a TSB said 'there will be a software update to correct this'll and in the meantime could only do a 3x drain and fill of the ATF (on Honda's dime). When I saw another TSB came out that the software update was live, spoke to them on the phone that it was live (they confirmed... not wanting to believe me of course) and brought it back, they then said they couldn't do the update as the drain/fill had corrected the issue per the earlier TSB and I had to wait to see if the poor shifts returned. I'd spoke to them, rearranged my day to do a drop off/pick up and then they said they couldn't do what they said they were doing to do because the didn't know to work it as a claim on the new TSB? Yeah, they were the dealer I first looked at my 10th gen Civic. It didn't get bought from there even though hey we're willing to beat the last price I was offered by a few bucks. I know service and sales departments are somewhat different entities... but the best form of protest I can see is not supporting their business anymore.

Dumping 5 qts in a car meant for ~1.5 less than that is on the realm of first time shade tree mechanic/new dude at Jiffy Lube level of competence and should have no place at a dealership's service department. That guy should get a reprimand and, if repeated, let go. Partly because you went to another shop, they wouldn't know... but even if they did, I bet they wouldn't do a thing with that mechanic.

 

 
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