Trade my CTR for WRX, looking for opinions

[SHIFTT_IX_MR]

Just buy what you want. Only you know what you need and what makes you happy.

Agreed.

Additionally, if your willing to buy used, and looking for something more inline with the Type R, and more reliable than the STi (I had 2, all stock, motors blew before 12K miles, ringland failures), I would consider an EVO VIII, IX, or X. Modding the STi is not cheap IMO. If you want to upgrade your fuel for e85, for instance, you will need double fuel rails, as opposed to one on an inline engine. And you probably won't be able to achieve over 500AWHP on an STI without going internally on the engine, unlike the EVO where the blocks can withstand quite a bit before needing to be rebuilt.

Otherwise, honestly, buy what makes you happy because your ass is gonna be sitting in it and driving it. STi's are a dime a dozen. I see more STi's than Type R.

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[SHIFTT_IX_MR]

I know what I need and what would make me happy... Unfortunately, my bank account is nowhere near big enough to accommodate that

I need a Mercedes 6x6, but like you, my wallet won't support that. If you're already in a Type R, the move to an STi or WRX is roughly the same in some respects, with the WRX being cheaper to maintain.

 

[NapalmEnema]

I personally don't think having to replace the headgaskets at ~100k miles is that outrageous. Coming from a Honda V6 where I had to change the timing belt every 60k miles (because Canada) according to the owners manual, this doesn't seem that outrageous. That timing belt job is fairly labor intensive and takes the better part of an entire weekend for someone whos never done it before. And it's not cheap if you take it to a shop (though I have heard of the occasional Honda dealer that would do it for dirt cheap- but that wasn't common)

I would personally look to have the head gaskets replaced at 75k miles, just to be safe. That's many years of driving for me to get to that mileage and knowing head gaskets are eventually a common problem on Subarus, I'd do it out of precaution.

In terms of the engines gernading themselves- is it still an on going problem, as bad as it was a decade ago? I thought the number of failures has drastically dropped since when it was first reported on happening.

But here's the thing- we are on a Honda forum where we obviously see Honda bias. Go to a Subaru forum and I bet most will say none of these issues are a big deal- it's not like every second STi was needing an engine replacement. In reality, it's likely 1 in 20, or even lower, but the forums make it seem so much worse.

hahah what? You'd consider a full dismantling of your engine at ~75 'preventative maintenance' on a Subaru? Lol come on now.

Those things blow up stock, modded, lightly modded, and just in general. That's not some overblown count from 'the forums' it's a high enough number for the car to be notorious. Sorry, but Loooooooooooong time Subaru owner and I am not from the batch of 'hoon it up dump the clutch / chase horsepower' I was a responsible / did everything right / car still blew up without reason and warped the block due to the headgasket failure.

There is no car that I am aware of that is 'for the masses' that would have 'normal' maintenance being take apart the engine to replace a gasket lol

 

[blitz]

I'm not a fan of the WRX. It felt heavy and laggy to me.

I was in the same boat, and I had a STi. For me, the transmission needed refinement (ie the shift points and clutch engagements did not seem to be where I would naturally want them), and the car felt “heavy,” if there is such a feeling, and perhaps that was due to the AWD system. It was my first AWD, so to be fair, maybe I just wasn’t accustomed to those setups. The STis are good track cars too, and I had quite a bit of fun tracking it when I had her.

 

[Si_chRis]

I personally don't think having to replace the headgaskets at ~100k miles is that outrageous. Coming from a Honda V6 where I had to change the timing belt every 60k miles (because Canada) according to the owners manual, this doesn't seem that outrageous. That timing belt job is fairly labor intensive and takes the better part of an entire weekend for someone whos never done it before. And it's not cheap if you take it to a shop (though I have heard of the occasional Honda dealer that would do it for dirt cheap- but that wasn't common)

I would personally look to have the head gaskets replaced at 75k miles, just to be safe. That's many years of driving for me to get to that mileage and knowing head gaskets are eventually a common problem on Subarus, I'd do it out of precaution.

In terms of the engines gernading themselves- is it still an on going problem, as bad as it was a decade ago? I thought the number of failures has drastically dropped since when it was first reported on happening.

But here's the thing- we are on a Honda forum where we obviously see Honda bias. Go to a Subaru forum and I bet most will say none of these issues are a big deal- it's not like every second STi was needing an engine replacement. In reality, it's likely 1 in 20, or even lower, but the forums make it seem so much worse.

lolololololol...comparing a timing belt job to a head gasket job. One is maintenance, and the other is total engine failure. Honda J-Series timing belt jobs do not require major disassembly or a bunch of parts needed, and can be done in less than a day. Otherwords, you are talking total engine disassembly, cylinder head resurfacing/machining, and much more replacement parts and labor needed in a head gasket job.

 

[frtorres87]

I for one would like to recommend the Audi RS6 Avant. Its what I would get. Can afford that? CTR it is lol.

 

[aytaka]

Anyone counseling anyone to get a motor with KNOWN design flaws that is ~15 years old is really doing nobody any favors...

I could MAYBE see the WRX with the newer 2.0 in it. But saying 'go get an STI?'

Come on man - most people in EVO's and the Type R and other similar vehicles came here from an STi failing them. Ringlands anyone? Head gasket?

I had a perfectly done 2008 STi - I did EVERYTHING right - only had Cobb work on it and pro tune it. POS head gasket went at 105k and warped the shortblock.

STI? I wouldn't buy that for someone I didn't like.

I'm more speaking to driving feel of the car overall. You can't argue the the STI is still a very fun to drive pure drivers car.

However, you are correct on the old design and other long term issues which is why you see my in a CTR rather than an STI.

 

[CivilciviC]

hahah what? You'd consider a full dismantling of your engine at ~75 'preventative maintenance' on a Subaru? Lol come on now.

Those things blow up stock, modded, lightly modded, and just in general. That's not some overblown count from 'the forums' it's a high enough number for the car to be notorious. Sorry, but Loooooooooooong time Subaru owner and I am not from the batch of 'hoon it up dump the clutch / chase horsepower' I was a responsible / did everything right / car still blew up without reason and warped the block due to the headgasket failure.

There is no car that I am aware of that is 'for the masses' that would have 'normal' maintenance being take apart the engine to replace a gasket lol

Yes, I do think replacing headgaskets is considered maintenance on any H shaped Subaru engine. You want a Subaru? Great. Expect head gaskets at one point or another. what I've seen around my parts, getting a shop to swap out the gaskets is in the ballpark of getting a Honda V6 timing belt changed. In terms of $/mile driven, the repairs aren't much different. Maybe that's not the story where you live, I dunno

But again, you have no evidence of numbers when it comes to engines exploding. It's obviously a low enough number for Subaru to just replace them under warranty, rather than redesign the engine. Until you have some empirical data showing how extensive the problem is, I'm chalking it up as little more than forum discussions. 20, 50, even 100 guys with a blown engine on a forum is not indicative of the entire car market buying that car. They sell thousands of STis. You're also assuming every year is exactly the same in terms of failure rates. That's wrong also. With any production car, issues are always largest at the first couple years and then dwindle. I'm not saying STi engines don't still blow up. I'm saying what was an issue in 2011 might be only a fraction in 2020.

I was hoping you'd respond with something more than just continuing the hearsay. I'm not trying to be rude or anything- but the bias runs strong in here. I also don't doubt you had a shitty ownership experience and as such, ditched the brand. But there's been CTR owners in the same boat who have come and gone, for whatever reason. Grinding transmissions, overheating, etc.

 

[CivilciviC]

lolololololol...comparing a timing belt job to a head gasket job. One is maintenance, and the other is total engine failure. Honda J-Series timing belt jobs do not require major disassembly or a bunch of parts needed, and can be done in less than a day. Otherwords, you are talking total engine disassembly, cylinder head resurfacing/machining, and much more replacement parts and labor needed in a head gasket job.

Hmm a quick job to replace timing belt eh? I wonder why the dealerships charge 1300-1500 for it here. Once you're in there you should do a valve adjustment also. It's not rocket science but it takes time and skill to do it. It would be unwise not to do it with the engine already opened up a bit, as you'd be disassembling everything to the same point to get at them.

I've never owned a subie and I myself have not had to deal with headgaskets. But I've had a few friends who have. Both of them paid under 2k to have them replaced at a shop.

I guess it all depends on where you live, when it comes to price. I again have heard of places down in the US that charge a fraction for the same T belt change on a Honda V6. Lucky bastards, hahaha.

I'm not disputing the effort required to do the job. But in either case, I've known people drop their car off, come back whenever it was done, pay the invoice and drive away smiling. Whether it's a 1300 dollar job, or a 2000 dollar job, after five years of driving on the tbelt or 6 years driving on he headgaskrts, I'm not losing sleep over a bill that's 700 bucks more.

And I bet you the subie forums feel the same, else they wouldn't be driving them.

 

[Zeffy94]

And I bet you the subie forums feel the same, else they wouldn't be driving them.

Some of my friends are Subie owners, and they say that while the cars aren't the most reliable there's a reason why they put up with the issues - because nothing else is like a Subaru. I respect it.

I would be curious if OP asked on NASOIC/Subaru forums (I think that's what it's called) what they would say. I'd suggest Reddit too.

 

[Si_chRis]

Hmm a quick job to replace timing belt eh? I wonder why the dealerships charge 1300-1500 for it here. Once you're in there you should do a valve adjustment also. It's not rocket science but it takes time and skill to do it. It would be unwise not to do it with the engine already opened up a bit, as you'd be disassembling everything to the same point to get at them.

I've never owned a subie and I myself have not had to deal with headgaskets. But I've had a few friends who have. Both of them paid under 2k to have them replaced at a shop.

I guess it all depends on where you live, when it comes to price. I again have heard of places down in the US that charge a fraction for the same T belt change on a Honda V6. Lucky bastards, hahaha.

I'm not disputing the effort required to do the job. But in either case, I've known people drop their car off, come back whenever it was done, pay the invoice and drive away smiling. Whether it's a 1300 dollar job, or a 2000 dollar job, after five years of driving on the tbelt or 6 years driving on he headgaskrts, I'm not losing sleep over a bill that's 700 bucks more.

And I bet you the subie forums feel the same, else they wouldn't be driving them.

If you cannot grasp the depth of a head gasket job versus a timing belt job, I think you need to go back and get familiar with what each job entails.

Just cause dealer service departments charge a certain amount does not necessarily determine complexity of the job. Every technician can be more or less efficient and perform jobs faster or slower but the flat rate still pays what the book says regardless of how fast the technician completes the job. Here is an example, it takes me only 30 minutes per side to swap out CV axles on my old 2000 Honda Civic SI in where my local Honda dealer would most likely charge 2-3 hours labor per side. Can the Honda technician do it as quick as me? Perhaps, maybe even quicker but he/she is still getting paid the 2-3 hours labor.

When your are looking at the timing belt job on the J-Series, it involves: draining the coolant, removing the serpentine drive belt, crank pulley, power steering pump, supporting the engine and removing an engine mount/bracket, upper and lower timing covers, then releasing the tensioner and removing it to get the timing belt out. Of course set TDC and lock the cams in place before removing the timing belt. If you are replacing the water pump and tensioner, add those after you remove the timing belt. And that is pretty much it, assemble everything in reverse order and burp the cooling system with new coolant. Valve adjustments are not needed when performing a timing belt job.

When you are speaking about a head gasket job, pretty much add the timing belt job I described above plus: removing various parts of the engine harness at the cylinder head area, a/c compressor, alternator, coil packs/spark plugs, various engine sensors, fuel supply lines, radiator hoses, valve cover, cam shafts (if the head studs are located under the cam journals), air box assembly, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, parts of the exhaust piping if needed. At this point, it is then you can unbolt the head studs attaching the cylinder head to the engine block, and lift the cylinder head off the engine block to get to the head gasket. In addition, anytime you replace a head gasket, you need to make sure the mating surfaces between the engine block and cylinder head are decked flat (typically done by a machine shop) otherwise, you will be doing the job all over again. So where are we at now with new head gaskets needing to be installed? Well, you have pretty much only an engine block in your engine bay, and a crap ton of work ahead of you to pretty much assemble the top half of your engine after you place the new head gasket onto the engine block. In the case of a flat Subaru or any V configured engine, multiply certain parts of what I described above times two, cause you have two engine banks to work with.

Timing belt jobs range in the hundreds and some may creep up to the 1K mark, but a head gasket job? You are talking about 3K plus, sometimes even more. There are so much more steps involved. Like I said, it is comparing a routine maintenance job versus total engine disassembly.

 

[NapalmEnema]

Fun fact - when I had my headgasket replaced after it failed, BY THE DEALERSHIP because I didn't want to take any chances - it blew right back up again because the shortblock had warped. It think it ran me ~5500 bucks? Not 'routine maintenance' by any stretch.

Secondary fun fact - nowhere in any Subaru manual of any level does it say 'Hey preventative maintenance should include a replacement of the head gasket before 100k miles'

It's a giant glaring flaw that Subaru lets people 'find out the hard way' and why I ditched that platform for any other on earth until they release a new one.

While this is a Type R forum - steering ANYONE to any year STi especially is a very negative thing to do. Those things suck - BECAUSE of the known flawed engine. Period.

Now if they had told me to change the headgasket at 70k miles and it was in the manual - no worries carry on - stellar car you have there.

But they don't - they claim it's abnormal and the engine and setup is fine - it's not.



MOVING back to the point of this thread - The WRX with the 2.0 is a better option than the STi but I can't fathom wanting the WRX over the Type R after driving both. But everyone is different so go rock a WRX - YOLO!

 

[RS27]

Those comparing a T belt job to a head gasket job are out of their mind. My techs get 7 hours pay for a V6 TB job. Head gasket on a J series? Double that. And add some more in. Techs can do a full t belt service in 3-4 hours. My best masters on a gasket job? A day. Maybe 1.5

the two are entirely in the different league in difficulty.

 

[ToofHurts]

Sorry. CTR >> WRX. Period.

 

[charleswrivers]

draining the coolant, removing the serpentine drive belt, crank pulley, power steering pump, supporting the engine and removing an engine mount/bracket, upper and lower timing covers, then releasing the tensioner and removing it to get the timing belt out. Of course set TDC and lock the cams in place before removing the timing belt. If you are replacing the water pump and tensioner, add those after you remove the timing belt. And that is pretty much it

Yeah... I plan I’m doing plugs myself around then. Honda doesn’t schedule the coolant replacement prior to the first timing belt replacement although something makes me think the periodicity is halved after the first change. I plan on having my serpentine belt replaced, as it’d be exceeding 10 years on the next change... the coolant will be done... and having the water pump replaced at that time since, well... it’s right there. I see some dealerships advertise the timing belt/coolant for $599.99. Of course the pump and serpentine will be extra on top of that, but it’s not terrible.

I hate it’s an interference engine w/a belt... but it’s what it is. I’ve paid to have belts on all my old VG-series Nissans done one time or another. I can’t recall ever spending more than maybe $500 or so. Well over $1000 would be highway robbery. I have little desire to do it myself though I suppose I could.

As to car vs car? I’ve never driven a CTR but have driven (never owned) a couple WRXs and an older STI. One of the WRXs was relatively new. I would not think a stock WRX would be in the same league as a CTR... the STI is more inline with a CTR. Violent launches off the line are fun with the AWD, but once they’re rolling the old ones (237 hp?) are probably about as fast as a current Si. A new one? Probably a bit quicker (I thought they were around 265 hp or so), but not by much. I also though the most recent one I drove, a ‘14, was heavy loud and kind of cheap feeling... though a lot better than the older one or two I drove. One of those was a ‘03. The STI was an ‘04.

Neat cars, and I don’t know enough to speak to their mechanical shortcomings... though I’ve heard bad noise about oil leaks. That’s about it though. I do think a CTR to WRX would be a large downgrade in speed and handling... the WRX is a one trick pony for launching and obviously the AWD can be useful in adverse weather (mainly snow... I lived in upstate NY for 4 years and they were plentiful. My RSX with good tires did fine though). As a car itself... comparing a Civic in general to at least the ‘14 WRX I last drove would also be a big downgrade as a car. I can’t speak to what Subaru might have come out with since... but they’d of needed to really step up their game.

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