Top Tier Gasoline, New Study

[NotYrGrndMa]

Not surprised.

I got a crap tank of gas in my old 2001 Passat (middle of the night in nowhere TN and I was really low on gas). The fuel filters in the pump acted like they hadn't been changed in ages, but the place was a cash pre-pay and I was pretty much stuck with it due to the time. Three tanks after that tank (local Meijer) my "Check Engine " light came on, and the VW started complaining about its catalytic converters failing (about 130k on it). After a few thousand bucks thrown at the car for repairs (no cats were needed, but new oxygen censors and filters), I noticed that Costco/Top Tier fill ups seemed to decrease the time in between the car throwing the catalytic failure error, Non-TT would cause it to trigger about a quarter of the way through the tank, TT sometimes let me go two tanks before coming on again if I let it run below 1/4 tank (longer if I kept it filled), and generally cleared it once it threw after three.

I mentioned this to my mechanic, and his best guess was the TT was helping sweep out the residual gunk at the bottom of the gas tank and system and recommended I stay with using it exclusively to keep the car going a little longer. Seemed to work - although I still never made it to 200k on the car

I only use TT in my Civic as a result of this experience - that bad tank was the most expensive $30 bucks I've ever spent, so it's not worth taking a chance to me even if I have to pay a buck or two more at the pump).

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[NotYrGrndMa]

What is the definition of "top tier"? Does it include anything other than Exxon, Mobile, Shell, Sunoco, and BP?

The bigger brands I think are all top-tier at this point, as is Costco. Best way to identify is is download GasBuddy and sort the search results by top-tier.

A nutshell definition is that top-tier gas is gas that has a higher than EPA standards additives/detergents to it in order to keep engine build up/deposits from forming that would increase emissions and decrease car performance over time.

 

[kirkhilles]

So... why doesn't the EPA just increase the detergents then if its so important? I get that they don't care about reliability of your vehicle, but if it actually DOES increase MPG or reduce emissions, then make it a requirement and be done with it.

 

[silverrascal]

So what I had read was what was posted earlier that I should put regular and higher gas would not make a difference. I have put regular gasoline twice. Should I switch to the better gas or is it too late?

Nah, you're fine with regular octane gas. Higher octane won't hurt the car but is not essential. The main thing is to try to use Top Tier certified gas whenever possible as this is what Honda recommends.

 

[Gavnzdad]

Honda also "recommends" to have your oil changed ONLY by the dealer. Because ya know, it's real hard. Sorry, that's all I'll say.

 

[Design]

I'm still not sure I understand the concept. So, all gas stations get their gas from the same sources, but the difference is that "top tier" uses detergents? So... use Techron then every once in a while then? It still smells like a scam to me to try and get you to go to major stations as opposed to the many no-name-brand gas stations that seem to be more common these days. I couldn't imagine that getting old (Ethanol!) gas from some small Shell station that gets 10 customers a day is better than getting gas from some no-name-brand that gets 200 customers a day and gets fresh gas everyday.

What am I missing? If detergents are beneficial, then why doesn't Honda recommend a detergent or fuel injector cleaner or whatever?

Do you REALLY want to put additives in your tank based on the number of gallons you add? lol.

In all seriousness, the standard has evolved due to the evolution in smog requirements involving the PCV and EGR. As vapors are recirculated into the IM, a small amount of additives help suspend carbon and other deposits from attaching to sensitive areas (most notably the intake valves and oil control rings). This is why using BOTH a high detergent fuel AND oil will help minimize this condition.

In the future, manufacturers will design a hybrid system where a second set of injectors are placed over the valves to assist with a cleaner burn. Toyota already does this in a couple of their applications. And others are expected to follow. In the meantime, as cheap insurance, pay an extra few cents for a decent oil and check here for the Top Tier providers:

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers/

 

[oldman]

I'm still not sure I understand the concept. So, all gas stations get their gas from the same sources, but the difference is that "top tier" uses detergents? So... use Techron then every once in a while then? It still smells like a scam to me to try and get you to go to major stations as opposed to the many no-name-brand gas stations that seem to be more common these days. I couldn't imagine that getting old (Ethanol!) gas from some small Shell station that gets 10 customers a day is better than getting gas from some no-name-brand that gets 200 customers a day and gets fresh gas everyday.

What am I missing? If detergents are beneficial, then why doesn't Honda recommend a detergent or fuel injector cleaner or whatever?

Don't think you are missing anything. we don't have any data on top tier or any tier. Is COSTCO the cheapest gas in my area, top tier? dunnno, I do remember COSTCO at one time having a gas campaign insisting their fuel is equal or BETTER than, top tier. Only the most general statements can be made, in general premium fuel will have more cleaners, in general the more "named brand" the more cleaners. Mass market stations may or may not fall into "named brand". Is COSTCO, how about wally world? I grew up next to a refinery, had some buds that were drivers, same trucks, same loads, meant same fuel.

Fresh vs un-fresh, really we have been with fiber tanks for many decades, there is no rust from bottom fills. Yes ethanol does absorb water, and some diesel injection pumps wear due to water, especially with low surfer fuel.

 

[oldman]

Do you REALLY want to put additives in your tank based on the number of gallons you add? lol.

In all seriousness, the standard has evolved due to the evolution in requirements with the PCV and EGR. As vapors are recirculated into the IM, a small amount of additives help suspend carbon and other deposits from attaching to sensitive areas (most notably the intake valves and oil control rings). This is why using BOTH a high detergent fuel AND oil will help minimize this condition.

In the future, manufacturers will design a hybrid system where a second set of injectors are placed over the valves to assist with a cleaner burn. Toyota already does this in a couple of their applications. And others are expected to follow. In the meantime, as cheap insurance, pay an extra few cents for a decent oil and check here for the Top Tier providers:

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers/

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[Paul H]

Gavnzdad....Honda dealer / Honda oil only.............that's because its a secret blend of 32 indigence - sorry that's something else .)

 

[oldman]

Honda also "recommends" to have your oil changed ONLY by the dealer. Because ya know, it's real hard. Sorry, that's all I'll say.

you sound like me. Sure there are cheap people going to drive their oil the longest and replace at the cheapest shop and cheapest oil available. I'm on the opposite side. I use a good filter (not Frame), Puralator, Mobile one, etc and either gold top Syntech or green top mobile one, based on the amount of PAO (synthetic base stock). Looking at every 5K miles.

 

[reversals]

Around where I live, most gas stations are considered top tier gasoline. So I don't understand what the fuss is. I'm just amused at people that are trying so hard to disprove this. More high quality detergents in your gasoline is better for your engine. It's that simple.

 

[Boz]

Around where I live, most gas stations are considered top tier gasoline. So I don't understand what the fuss is. I'm just amused at people that are trying so hard to disprove this. More high quality detergents in your gasoline is better for your engine. It's that simple.

What do you mean "considered top tier gasoline"? Gasoline being Top Tier isn't a matter of opinion.

 

[Design]

This applies more to rural areas controlled by Mom & Pop shops, where it costs more to ship fuel. Larger retail chains could never justify setting up shop in an areas that drive very little traffic (so to speak).

 

[reversals]

What do you mean "considered top tier gasoline"? Gasoline being Top Tier isn't a matter of opinion.

I just mean that they are top tier. I probably don't have a gas station that isn't a top tier brand within a 10 mile radius.

 

[oldman]

https://media.ford.com/content/ford.../2017-ford-f150-more-torque-better-boost.html

looks like ford is switching all ecoboost to dual injection like Lexus, port and direct.

I think it is harder to define non-top tier, I've been to some Chevrons / Shells in the middle of nowhere are they "top tier"? In fact there are very few, as in the one near me closed down a while ago, no name brand fuel station. All of them basically are named brand. So how can top tier equal fact as there is no definition at all. Is COSTCO top tier? You don't know, I don't know. COSTCO themselves insist their fuel contains the same or MORE cleaner then competing brand... but it is inexpensive. Is wally world top tier? I dunno, doubt it, but clearly the have marketing delivery pricing power. The fuel tested were not name so we basically DON'T KNOW period.

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