Thought going from 0W-20 to 5w-30?

[cryptolime]

just changed my oil today with a thick 0w20 (8.8 cst @ 100C) (Mobil 1 EP)

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[gtman]

I don't know guys. I kind of feel like that old 27Won oil debate blog nailed it. For 90 percent of 10th gen Civic owners 0W-20 is perfectly fine, including a large majority of tuned owners.

They only think 5W-30 is a must do for cars on high ethanol tunes, cars tuned for 50% or more power than stock and track cars.

I think their logic is sound ...

Their words....
On your stock to lightly modified turbo Honda the OEM 0W-20 is perfectly suitable. There is no reason to go to a thicker oil. In fact, going to a thicker oil can actually lead to some less desired effects like lower MPG and higher engine loads with no upside. It’s important to realize that Honda engineers spent years designing these engines to work around a certain set of parts for a certain period of time with this certain type of engine oil. It’s unlikely the average enthusiast can outdo years of research and development.

Unfortunately I don't have the data to show if 0W-20 is an issue with the tuned crowd as oil weight has never been a part of my tuning thread study. I've personally run tunes for nearly 7 years on 0W-20 exclusively with no issues. Most of that at TSP 1 and Phearable 1.5R levels.

 

[parshisa]

For anyone saying that 5w30 is too thick and won’t “flow through the clearances as good”. First of all, I highly recommend you to study tribology. Second of all, oil shears due to rather low HTHS for 0w20 oil, additionally, all 1.5t tend to flood the oil with fuel, hence oil viscosity is substantially reduced. Multiple UOA I’ve done on different 5w30 I’ve ran in my civic, showed that be 3-4k miles the oil viscosity is barely in the 0w20 grade range. Hope this helps

 

[cryptolime]

For anyone saying that 5w30 is too thick and won’t “flow through the clearances as good”. First of all, I highly recommend you to study tribology. Second of all, oil shears due to rather low HTHS for 0w20 oil, additionally, all 1.5t tend to flood the oil with fuel, hence oil viscosity is substantially reduced. Multiple UOA I’ve done on different 5w30 I’ve ran in my civic, showed that be 3-4k miles the oil viscosity is barely in the 0w20 grade range. Hope this helps

engine usually starts sounding like it needs an oil change by 5000 miles on mine. i drive it hard though.

 

[Design]

I don't know guys. I kind of feel like that old 27Won oil debate blog nailed it. For 90 percent of 10th gen Civic owners 0W-20 is perfectly fine, including a large majority of tuned owners.

They only think 5W-30 is a must do for cars on high ethanol tunes, cars tuned for 50% or more power than stock and track cars.

I think their logic is sound ...

Their words....
On your stock to lightly modified turbo Honda the OEM 0W-20 is perfectly suitable. There is no reason to go to a thicker oil. In fact, going to a thicker oil can actually lead to some less desired effects like lower MPG and higher engine loads with no upside. It’s important to realize that Honda engineers spent years designing these engines to work around a certain set of parts for a certain period of time with this certain type of engine oil. It’s unlikely the average enthusiast can outdo years of research and development.

Unfortunately I don't have the data to show if 0W-20 is an issue with the tuned crowd as oil weight has never been a part of my tuning thread study. I've personally run tunes for nearly 7 years on 0W-20 exclusively with no issues. Most of that at TSP 1 and Phearable 1.5R levels.

Not only is that sound logic, but our long-term oil analyses do indeed support it. Bearing and ring clearances are typically much tighter on cars running 0W-20. A heavier weight may not flow as easily or sufficiently lubricate these areas immediately following startup on a cold morning.

That said, probably fine for summer or track days.

 

[Fg4Juke]

Not only is that sound logic, but our long-term oil analyses do indeed support it. Bearing and ring clearances are typically much tighter on cars running 0W-20. A heavier weight may not flow as easily or sufficiently lubricate these areas immediately following startup on a cold morning.

That said, probably fine for summer or track days.

Untrue, and please go read the 27won blog, or any aftermarket manufactures advice on this. If it was unsafe and didn’t help the car, it wouldn’t be recommended by every tuner and aftermarket manufacturer for cars running high output tunes, or cars that are on track.

it is just as safe (and safer in stressful scenarios) than 0w-20.

 

[IronFusion]

I don't know guys. I kind of feel like that old 27Won oil debate blog nailed it. For 90 percent of 10th gen Civic owners 0W-20 is perfectly fine, including a large majority of tuned owners.

They only think 5W-30 is a must do for cars on high ethanol tunes, cars tuned for 50% or more power than stock and track cars.

I think their logic is sound ...

Their words....
On your stock to lightly modified turbo Honda the OEM 0W-20 is perfectly suitable. There is no reason to go to a thicker oil. In fact, going to a thicker oil can actually lead to some less desired effects like lower MPG and higher engine loads with no upside. It’s important to realize that Honda engineers spent years designing these engines to work around a certain set of parts for a certain period of time with this certain type of engine oil. It’s unlikely the average enthusiast can outdo years of research and development.

Unfortunately I don't have the data to show if 0W-20 is an issue with the tuned crowd as oil weight has never been a part of my tuning thread study. I've personally run tunes for nearly 7 years on 0W-20 exclusively with no issues. Most of that at TSP 1 and Phearable 1.5R levels.

I'm not familiar with the blog post, but I know 27Won to have informative writing with thorough analysis. So, I see what you've referenced as validating of my stance. Because it's pretty much the same.

Following the first freebie oil change after purchase, I've changed my own oil and sent most away for UOA; all before, through refinement, and following tuning of my car.

My analysis has never indicated concerning dilution, and I don't recall a single analysis stating the additive package was exhausted.

My perception has been folks switching to heavier oil is cargo cultism.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Honda Branded Oil, but following that first oil change ive always used PUP 0w-20.

Ive always found it odd folks have been quick to change oil specs without data-driven causation, but there hasn't been the same strong headedness to change the filter every oil change

 

[IronFusion]

engine usually starts sounding like it needs an oil change by 5000 miles on mine. i drive it hard though.

What sound would that be?

 

[gtman]

What sound would that be?

I was thinking the same thing.

He could be on to something. Forget maintenance minders or schedules. Engine sound is the new way to tell if the oil needs replacing.

 

[BrandonSmith]

I’m just seeing this thread and didn’t read the entire thing.

5W-30 is the standard oil weight in Euro-spec Hondas, and there are no differences I’m aware of between NA and Euro engines.

For all we know, the Euro engines may be assembled with components with looser tolerances and may allow (or need) a slightly thicker oil. We don’t know.

As an MLT-certified engineer, I wouldn’t see an issue switching between 0W20 and 5W30 as their viscosities are so close to one another.

Kinematic viscosity is measured at 40°C and 100°C - is that what your operating temp (i.e. oil temp) is? No.

You need to know what the operating temp is of the oil, then you can use Reynolds and Vogel formulas to calculate viscosity (HERE) at the operating temp. Using the viscosity index is not enough as that is just a linear interpolation and doesn’t tell half the story.

You will find different oils of the same grade have wildly different viscosities. That’s because there’s a range of viscosities within a grade. And if you don’t have all the data, but just one or two data points, some 0W20 oils will look like a 5W30, and some 5W30 oils will look like a 0W20.

 

[ManitobaSI]

If you go with a bigger turbo you have no choice but to goto 5W-30. The turbo manufacturers tell you that. I have been running 5w-30 for several years and I’m very happy and car runs great.

 

[Nessism]

Since Honda

I’m just seeing this thread and didn’t read the entire thing.

5W-30 is the standard oil weight in Euro-spec Hondas, and there are no differences I’m aware of between NA and Euro engines.

For all we know, the Euro engines may be assembled with components with looser tolerances and may allow (or need) a slightly thicker oil. We don’t know.

As an MLT-certified engineer, I wouldn’t see an issue switching between 0W20 and 5W30 as their viscosities are so close to one another.

Kinematic viscosity is measured at 40°C and 100°C - is that what your operating temp (i.e. oil temp) is? No.

You need to know what the operating temp is of the oil, then you can use Reynolds and Vogel formulas to calculate viscosity (HERE) at the operating temp. Using the viscosity index is not enough as that is just a linear interpolation and doesn’t tell half the story.

You will find different oils of the same grade have wildly different viscosities. That’s because there’s a range of viscosities within a grade. And if you don’t have all the data, but just one or two data points, some 0W20 oils will look like a 5W30, and some 5W30 oils will look like a 0W20.

I doubt Euro engines are built with looser clearances. That's not how the Japanese roll.

The 1.5T engines dilute their oil with fuel. This results in thinning the oil. For that reason, running 5W-30 is a good hedge against fuel dilution. The 2.0 NA engines don't apply here, since they are port injected.

One question, though, what about short tripped 1.5T cars? Where the oil rarely get up to full operating temperature? This question applies to me, since my commute is only 6 miles. I've chosen to run the thinner 0W-20, because it's thinner, and will flow more easily when cold, but I change my oil at 6 month intervals. Fuel accumulates in the oil, and I want to get that out.

If driving a more normal cycle, I'd run 5W-30, or maybe 0W-30. I haven't decided about switching, but 0W-30 is on my mind these days.

 

[cryptolime]

might as well add oil weight to the tuning thread. more data = better.

fwiw, i've tried 0w-30 and it felt like it was overkill for normal daily driving. i do a lot of short trips as well.

 

[Nessism]

might as well add oil weight to the tuning thread. more data = better.

fwiw, i've tried 0w-30 and it felt like it was overkill for normal daily driving. i do a lot of short trips as well.

Short trips = fuel accumulation in the oil. A thicker oil is a good hedge.

 

[cryptolime]

Short trips = fuel accumulation in the oil. A thicker oil is a good hedge.

true, but i haven't had any oil dilution issues yet. oil level stays rock solid throughout the oil change interval.

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