The Oil Thread

[planedoc]

Why should Honda pay for clean up? This is a drawback of DI engines. You just need to factor in periodic walnut blasting of the intake valves into the maintenance cost of the car. Why do you think using a super-duper expensive oil would prevent this?

Or just not drive DI engines....

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[Design]

What type of fuel do you use?

And you're stock, yes?

 

[planedoc]

What type of fuel do you use?

And you're stock, yes?

Yes I’m stock. And I use various brands, but only fuel with a top tier rating on the pump. Plus I use Techron fuel system cleaner every 5000 miles. The fuel isn’t the problem, because the inside of the cylinders and the injectors are squeaky clean. The problem is the fuel doesn’t get to the intake valves on a GDI engine. Only the oil does from the PCV system.

 

[RetroJR]

If im honest i'd say these valves don't look bad to me at all for a DI motor.
Are you noticing any idling or performance issues?

 

[planedoc]

If im honest i'd say these valves don't look bad to me at all for a DI motor.
Are you noticing any idling or performance issues?

They may not look that bad by DI standards, but they look terrible by port injection standards. With a port injector, you wouldn’t see that much buildup with 200,000 miles on them, let alone 20,000. That’s why I am rejecting GDI.

 

[Design]

I agree that they're not that bad - even at 20K. IMHO, it's worth continuing to monitor the accumulation around the seals. If they encroach that area then I imagine we may start noticing performance/efficiency losses. If deposits were making their way down to the piston walls, I might be a little more concerned.

My take: keep an eye on fuel economy and open a case through Honda if you notice irregular behaviour at idle or partial throttle.

Edit: just realized this was for the Accord. We have quite a few of the 2.4s running over 120K with no major drivability issues. Not trying to marginalize the issue - just that Honda may have accounted for this in testing.

 

[planedoc]

I agree that they're not that bad - even at 20K. IMHO, it's worth continuing to monitor the accumulation around the seals. If they encroach that area then I imagine we may start noticing performance/efficiency losses. If deposits were making their way down to the piston walls, I might be a little more concerned.

My take: keep an eye on fuel economy and open a case through Honda if you notice irregular behaviour at idle or partial throttle.

I think you're the first to share a status on the valves. Going to share with a few others and see what they have to say.

I have lost 3 mpg, but I have been attributing that to the winter blend gas used in our state. All vehicles lose about 10% gas mileage on the stuff. I won’t know how much I have really lost until spring?

 

[dick w]

I have lost 3 mpg, but I have been attributing that to the winter blend gas used in our state. All vehicles lose about 10% gas mileage on the stuff. I won’t know how much I have really lost until spring?

Gas mileage varies for lots of reasons. Now that you've been in there 'scoping about, your test is no longer blind. I'm guessing that whatever gas mileage you experience you will be tempted to negatively attribute to the "problem" you are now aware of.

 

[planedoc]

Gas mileage varies for lots of reasons. Now that you've been in there 'scoping about, your test is no longer blind. I'm guessing that whatever gas mileage you experience you will be tempted to negatively attribute to the "problem" you are now aware of.

I don’t think so. Unless the mileage doesn’t return to normal in April when we get off the winter blend fuel. Then, hell yes I will....

 

[dick w]

I don’t think so. Unless the mileage doesn’t return to normal in April when we get off the winter blend fuel. Then, hell yes I will....

And if the gas mileage does return to "normal" (however you know what that is) will you then feel that the deposits you saw are a "characteristic" and not necessarily, or not yet, a "problem"?

I've been tracking gas mileage for a *long* time on a lot of vehicles. In my case, it's noisy data. Beyond the seasonality, there are very few of the spikes and shifts over time that I have explanations for. Generally those explanations are a move of work location/commute, a move from Denver to Kauai, and a long road trip. Beyond that, it's just noisy data--and this is already filtered by a six fill moving average.

 

[Design]

Carb deposits are easy to track. They either show up in compression/leakdown testing (leaky valve) or irregular CFM readings from the MAF.

Personally, I don't think a catch can will do much to trap oil & fuel vapors (only larger droplets, which shouldn't be comparatively much). I'd suggest a GDI cleaner every 40-60K to help keep things at bay. Or do media blasting if you experience drivability problems.

I've done GDI clearner on the MS3 and it did a decent job clearing things out. I sprayed through the TB (though this vid recommends the booster). I'll link it here since it's applicable to just about any DI powertrain:

 

[CivicChina]

CRV owners are making a lot of noise here in China f0r extreme oil dilution problems, especially in colder climates in the north, I checked my Civic and found my oil level has increased a little 4000km after the last oil change. Next service is 1000km ahead, I don't worry too much about it but I wouldnt go over the 5000km between oil changes, as advised by Honda. My Honda 0w20 green is very very thin so it is hard to read and even harder to take a good photo, it drops down so quickly on the dipstick!

 

[Wyborowa]

CRV owners are making a lot of noise here in China f0r extreme oil dilution problems, especially in colder climates in the north, I checked my Civic and found my oil level has increased a little 4000km after the last oil change. Next service is 1000km ahead, I don't worry too much about it but I wouldnt go over the 5000km between oil changes, as advised by Honda. My Honda 0w20 green is very very thin so it is hard to read and even harder to take a good photo, it drops down so quickly on the dipstick!

Wouldn’t this be covered under warranty? I am sure the engine is not meant to have gas leaking and diluting your oil.
I am tired of having problems with Honda not fixing issues with their cars because they are warranty work

I would love to know if there is a way to go above Honda North American headquarters because I still seem to be getting nowhere with them

 

[CivicChina]

This case is becoming huge: dealerships are surrounded by cars covered with banners against honda, angry customers sent tons of complains, so Honda organized a press conference to explain they are studing the problem and will soon come back with a solution. Let's see.

 

[hichamaziz]

I don't think the community has seen test results on it

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