The Infamous 2nd Gear Crunch

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lust

Senior Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Threads
16
Messages
1,411
Reaction score
1,774
Location
Bay Area
Vehicle(s)
2019 Champ White Type R
Country flag
'' I’m not sure how many times I’ve explained it at this point....''


To be honest I don't think you understands how it works.

'' Deleting the clutch delay valve located in the slave cylinder does NOTHING to help with shifting. You’re only created more driveline Shock. This valve is a one way valve and will only delay the clutch engagement and not the DISengagement.''


Let's imagine you have a garden hose ,and this hose has plastic device in the center using pretty much all the diameter of the inlet but let the water goes partially out.. and then you remove this plastic device, how do you think flows better?
Is a good question right? What do you think is the andswer?

'' What you want is to release the clutch fully and as quickly as possible. This is done by optimizing the free play and adjusting pedal stroke. Eman also has a modified CMC which has the feed hole bore increased to aid in more fluid travel.''

Do you thing 4 mm of rod travel will make any difference?? no matter how quicker do you release the clutch fully if you have a valve preventing that action happens. What you really wanted is disengage quicker the clutch not release , for that reason you need to optimize the internal fluid. ( see previous reply garden hose example)

There is many people doing the Clutch master cylinder modification, including myself, and is clear you don't know what are you talking about, is about open holes, all is calibrated , for get more fluid travel you need to increase the cylinder size internal volume.


''Again, these adjustments if done correctly will not cause harm to your components. If anything you will have longer life because everything is working as intended. You can check your work by pushing the slave cylinder by hand. If the slave moves, the clutch is still “self adjusting”.
''



This is so WRONG!!, you could damage your clutch disc doing incorrectly or damage the synchro's permanently .
Checking if you properly adjusted a clutch master cylinder by doing '' hand pushing the slave'' is just ridiculous , like I'm saying yeah just squeeze your tires for check the pressure.
And for last NO, the clutch it won't self adjusting at all!!.
Lol I’m just gonna quit trying because it’s clear you don’t know jack shit.
Sponsored

 

seselectronics

CivicX Basic Sponsor
First Name
Alex
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Threads
64
Messages
1,639
Reaction score
1,152
Location
Florida
Website
www.seselectronicssolutions.com
Vehicle(s)
Civic type R
Country flag
Lol I’m just gonna quit trying because it’s clear you don’t know jack shit.
I’m not trying to be an ass , have you tried at least removing the clutch master delay valve at least or just guessing ? , how many transmission have you taking a part? How many grinding issues hace you improve doing what you claim ? Because I’ve done a couple Rs , that’s why I wrote all based on my experience.
Again not trying to be an ass .
 

slw_as_fk.8

Member
First Name
Jordan
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Threads
9
Messages
30
Reaction score
10
Location
City of Industry, CA
Vehicle(s)
2019 Sonic Grey Pearl Civic Type R
Country flag
Hi all,

Wanted to share my experience with the 2nd gear grinds as this is a issue for me as the frequency has increased. Am at about 13K miles and had about 15+ 2nd gear grinds but had 8 since 12/29. 4 came from yesterday as I was testing to determine a consistent situation on when the grind will occur. This is my first manual car so I understand some user error could be at play and certainly I am not as knowledgeable nor experienced as many of the members here, but at this point I am thinking its more the transmission and less of me shifting poorly.

From day one I always felt like 1-2 felt notchy and “crunchy” but I brushed it off initially as just me not shifting well enough. It started to get annoying so I looked for solutions. All helped but never fully eliminated the crunching/notchiness nor all grinds, which happens on occasions. Ended up doing the following in order:

- Swap the OEM shiftknob with a weighted one (got the Seeker Japan one)
- Swap the Seeker Japan one with the Teardrop Battlecraft shift knob: A longer shift knob felt much better and gave me better leverage and control)
- Installed the Hybrid Racing Short Shifter and shifter cable bushing: Ran the shifter for probably the last 5K miles. All gears felt improved but 1-2 still felt like crap half the time and still grinded occasionally
- Swapping the trans fluid with Amsoil Syncromesh: Changed in the first week of December and probably racked in over 500 miles with the fluid. Shifts felt better but still not fully eliminated.

This is my daily and I don’t track or autox the car but I do occasionally do some spirited driving. I drive in a pretty tame manner normally, upshifting between 3-4k rpm. I have definitely improved with smoother and faster shifts but with the faster shifts (not banging gears fast but faster than just starting manual fast) I am having more occasions grinding. I am also fully pushing the clutch all the way down every time before I shift gears.

Of the times I grinded, these were the situations that I noted:
- upshifting from 1-2 out of a left turn off a red light
- Pulls at 5K+ rpm
- Normal straights from normal driving (shifting at 3-4K rpm)

All these scenarios are when I notice the grinds but it won’t grind every time. Initially, I thought it was from just trying to shifting fast or when the car is slightly angled but just testing out scenarios yesterday affirmed to me that there is no 1 scenario where it will replicate the grind every time. Again it doesn’t happen on those situations every time but those are the times it grinds randomly. With the increased grinding, I am getting more paranoid and annoyed that the trans will crap out on me. I want to take it to a dealership but it took me 1.5hrs of driving last night to get 3 grinds in a single trip so I doubt the usual 2 mile or so test route dealerships take will draw out another grind. Anyone else had increased frequency of grinding as they rack up more miles?

Sorry for the long post and thank you all for the read and any feedback ??‍♂
 

Lust

Senior Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Threads
16
Messages
1,411
Reaction score
1,774
Location
Bay Area
Vehicle(s)
2019 Champ White Type R
Country flag
Hi all,

Wanted to share my experience with the 2nd gear grinds as this is a issue for me as the frequency has increased. Am at about 13K miles and had about 15+ 2nd gear grinds but had 8 since 12/29. 4 came from yesterday as I was testing to determine a consistent situation on when the grind will occur. This is my first manual car so I understand some user error could be at play and certainly I am not as knowledgeable nor experienced as many of the members here, but at this point I am thinking its more the transmission and less of me shifting poorly.

From day one I always felt like 1-2 felt notchy and “crunchy” but I brushed it off initially as just me not shifting well enough. It started to get annoying so I looked for solutions. All helped but never fully eliminated the crunching/notchiness nor all grinds, which happens on occasions. Ended up doing the following in order:

- Swap the OEM shiftknob with a weighted one (got the Seeker Japan one)
- Swap the Seeker Japan one with the Teardrop Battlecraft shift knob: A longer shift knob felt much better and gave me better leverage and control)
- Installed the Hybrid Racing Short Shifter and shifter cable bushing: Ran the shifter for probably the last 5K miles. All gears felt improved but 1-2 still felt like crap half the time and still grinded occasionally
- Swapping the trans fluid with Amsoil Syncromesh: Changed in the first week of December and probably racked in over 500 miles with the fluid. Shifts felt better but still not fully eliminated.

This is my daily and I don’t track or autox the car but I do occasionally do some spirited driving. I drive in a pretty tame manner normally, upshifting between 3-4k rpm. I have definitely improved with smoother and faster shifts but with the faster shifts (not banging gears fast but faster than just starting manual fast) I am having more occasions grinding. I am also fully pushing the clutch all the way down every time before I shift gears.

Of the times I grinded, these were the situations that I noted:
- upshifting from 1-2 out of a left turn off a red light
- Pulls at 5K+ rpm
- Normal straights from normal driving (shifting at 3-4K rpm)

All these scenarios are when I notice the grinds but it won’t grind every time. Initially, I thought it was from just trying to shifting fast or when the car is slightly angled but just testing out scenarios yesterday affirmed to me that there is no 1 scenario where it will replicate the grind every time. Again it doesn’t happen on those situations every time but those are the times it grinds randomly. With the increased grinding, I am getting more paranoid and annoyed that the trans will crap out on me. I want to take it to a dealership but it took me 1.5hrs of driving last night to get 3 grinds in a single trip so I doubt the usual 2 mile or so test route dealerships take will draw out another grind. Anyone else had increased frequency of grinding as they rack up more miles?

Sorry for the long post and thank you all for the read and any feedback ??‍♂
Try adjusting your clutch pedal free play. Change the Amsoil oil for AC Delco Synchromesh Friction Modified and see if that helps
 

hooger

Member
Joined
May 10, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
16
Reaction score
17
Location
ON, Canada
Vehicle(s)
2020 Boost Blue Type R (Sold)
Country flag
Hi all,

Wanted to share my experience with the 2nd gear grinds as this is a issue for me as the frequency has increased. Am at about 13K miles and had about 15+ 2nd gear grinds but had 8 since 12/29. 4 came from yesterday as I was testing to determine a consistent situation on when the grind will occur. This is my first manual car so I understand some user error could be at play and certainly I am not as knowledgeable nor experienced as many of the members here, but at this point I am thinking its more the transmission and less of me shifting poorly.

From day one I always felt like 1-2 felt notchy and “crunchy” but I brushed it off initially as just me not shifting well enough. It started to get annoying so I looked for solutions. All helped but never fully eliminated the crunching/notchiness nor all grinds, which happens on occasions. Ended up doing the following in order:

- Swap the OEM shiftknob with a weighted one (got the Seeker Japan one)
- Swap the Seeker Japan one with the Teardrop Battlecraft shift knob: A longer shift knob felt much better and gave me better leverage and control)
- Installed the Hybrid Racing Short Shifter and shifter cable bushing: Ran the shifter for probably the last 5K miles. All gears felt improved but 1-2 still felt like crap half the time and still grinded occasionally
- Swapping the trans fluid with Amsoil Syncromesh: Changed in the first week of December and probably racked in over 500 miles with the fluid. Shifts felt better but still not fully eliminated.

This is my daily and I don’t track or autox the car but I do occasionally do some spirited driving. I drive in a pretty tame manner normally, upshifting between 3-4k rpm. I have definitely improved with smoother and faster shifts but with the faster shifts (not banging gears fast but faster than just starting manual fast) I am having more occasions grinding. I am also fully pushing the clutch all the way down every time before I shift gears.

Of the times I grinded, these were the situations that I noted:
- upshifting from 1-2 out of a left turn off a red light
- Pulls at 5K+ rpm
- Normal straights from normal driving (shifting at 3-4K rpm)

All these scenarios are when I notice the grinds but it won’t grind every time. Initially, I thought it was from just trying to shifting fast or when the car is slightly angled but just testing out scenarios yesterday affirmed to me that there is no 1 scenario where it will replicate the grind every time. Again it doesn’t happen on those situations every time but those are the times it grinds randomly. With the increased grinding, I am getting more paranoid and annoyed that the trans will crap out on me. I want to take it to a dealership but it took me 1.5hrs of driving last night to get 3 grinds in a single trip so I doubt the usual 2 mile or so test route dealerships take will draw out another grind. Anyone else had increased frequency of grinding as they rack up more miles?

Sorry for the long post and thank you all for the read and any feedback ??‍♂
I had a pretty similar experience with my 2020. My first shift off the dealer lot felt like a bag of marbles. 1-2 felt pretty crap most of the time. Started getting 1-2 grinds after 5000KM. I switched to GM synchromesh before the grinds emerged to fix 5-4 lockout, the other major problem I had with mine.

I feel like there is definitely something wrong with the design or quality control of these transmissions and I'm dissapointed Honda didn't fix it for the 2020 facelift. It seems like it's the luck of the draw whether you're going to have issues or not.
 


Jwolf

I Think I'm Fast
Joined
Sep 23, 2019
Threads
12
Messages
592
Reaction score
545
Location
Toronto
Vehicle(s)
Toyota 86, '19 CTR, Some other stuff
Country flag
Hi all,

Wanted to share my experience with the 2nd gear grinds as this is a issue for me as the frequency has increased. Am at about 13K miles and had about 15+ 2nd gear grinds but had 8 since 12/29. 4 came from yesterday as I was testing to determine a consistent situation on when the grind will occur. This is my first manual car so I understand some user error could be at play and certainly I am not as knowledgeable nor experienced as many of the members here, but at this point I am thinking its more the transmission and less of me shifting poorly.

From day one I always felt like 1-2 felt notchy and “crunchy” but I brushed it off initially as just me not shifting well enough. It started to get annoying so I looked for solutions. All helped but never fully eliminated the crunching/notchiness nor all grinds, which happens on occasions. Ended up doing the following in order:

- Swap the OEM shiftknob with a weighted one (got the Seeker Japan one)
- Swap the Seeker Japan one with the Teardrop Battlecraft shift knob: A longer shift knob felt much better and gave me better leverage and control)
- Installed the Hybrid Racing Short Shifter and shifter cable bushing: Ran the shifter for probably the last 5K miles. All gears felt improved but 1-2 still felt like crap half the time and still grinded occasionally
- Swapping the trans fluid with Amsoil Syncromesh: Changed in the first week of December and probably racked in over 500 miles with the fluid. Shifts felt better but still not fully eliminated.

This is my daily and I don’t track or autox the car but I do occasionally do some spirited driving. I drive in a pretty tame manner normally, upshifting between 3-4k rpm. I have definitely improved with smoother and faster shifts but with the faster shifts (not banging gears fast but faster than just starting manual fast) I am having more occasions grinding. I am also fully pushing the clutch all the way down every time before I shift gears.

Of the times I grinded, these were the situations that I noted:
- upshifting from 1-2 out of a left turn off a red light
- Pulls at 5K+ rpm
- Normal straights from normal driving (shifting at 3-4K rpm)

All these scenarios are when I notice the grinds but it won’t grind every time. Initially, I thought it was from just trying to shifting fast or when the car is slightly angled but just testing out scenarios yesterday affirmed to me that there is no 1 scenario where it will replicate the grind every time. Again it doesn’t happen on those situations every time but those are the times it grinds randomly. With the increased grinding, I am getting more paranoid and annoyed that the trans will crap out on me. I want to take it to a dealership but it took me 1.5hrs of driving last night to get 3 grinds in a single trip so I doubt the usual 2 mile or so test route dealerships take will draw out another grind. Anyone else had increased frequency of grinding as they rack up more miles?

Sorry for the long post and thank you all for the read and any feedback ??‍♂
I wouldn't bother taking it to the dealership honestly. If you can't recreate it at will there would be no point.

Does this only happen at aggressive fast shifts? Or low speed low rpm granny shifts?
 

slw_as_fk.8

Member
First Name
Jordan
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Threads
9
Messages
30
Reaction score
10
Location
City of Industry, CA
Vehicle(s)
2019 Sonic Grey Pearl Civic Type R
Country flag
I wouldn't bother taking it to the dealership honestly. If you can't recreate it at will there would be no point.

Does this only happen at aggressive fast shifts? Or low speed low rpm granny shifts?
So i took it to a buddy of mine today and we were test driving to just see what is wrong and if we can better pinpoint the issue. Ended up grinding 15 times but we were able to replicate it to a certain extent. Under hard and fast shifts, usually around 5-6K rpm, we were grinding the most often. Of course it can still grind at other times but usually under faster shifts even in lower rpm (grinded a few times around 3K).

We believe the 2nd gear synchros are bad and have a harder time to line up at faster shifts. But by shifting slower I guess you allow the synchros to be in place with the added time. Car drives fine otherwise but basically gotta granny shift from 1-2 every time. But anything beyond that can warrant a grind.

Going to take out the short shifter and bushings hopefully next week and get everything back to stock to prepare for going into the dealer.

Not happy with the outcome but I think we can get it to be replicated. I really hope I can get at least the synchros replaced and if I end up getting a new trans I hope its not going to be worse than the one I have now.

Either way I’m going to try and fight my way to get Honda to resolve the issue because there is no reason why a car that is barely 1 year old and meant to be driven hard is having synchro issues already. Just gotta shoot my shot and hope all goes well. ?
 

Jwolf

I Think I'm Fast
Joined
Sep 23, 2019
Threads
12
Messages
592
Reaction score
545
Location
Toronto
Vehicle(s)
Toyota 86, '19 CTR, Some other stuff
Country flag
So i took it to a buddy of mine today and we were test driving to just see what is wrong and if we can better pinpoint the issue. Ended up grinding 15 times but we were able to replicate it to a certain extent. Under hard and fast shifts, usually around 5-6K rpm, we were grinding the most often. Of course it can still grind at other times but usually under faster shifts even in lower rpm (grinded a few times around 3K).

We believe the 2nd gear synchros are bad and have a harder time to line up at faster shifts. But by shifting slower I guess you allow the synchros to be in place with the added time. Car drives fine otherwise but basically gotta granny shift from 1-2 every time. But anything beyond that can warrant a grind.

Going to take out the short shifter and bushings hopefully next week and get everything back to stock to prepare for going into the dealer.

Not happy with the outcome but I think we can get it to be replicated. I really hope I can get at least the synchros replaced and if I end up getting a new trans I hope its not going to be worse than the one I have now.

Either way I’m going to try and fight my way to get Honda to resolve the issue because there is no reason why a car that is barely 1 year old and meant to be driven hard is having synchro issues already. Just gotta shoot my shot and hope all goes well. ?
You're really going to have a hard time with fighting a dealership especially if they know this is your first manual that you learned to drive on and within a year you're claiming there is an issue.

All I'm saying is really do your homework and be sure you can 99% replicate it and prove that it isn't you or your going to have tons of frustration with the dealership.

I will agree the car is meant to be driven, it's a drivers car, but that does not necessarily mean it can be beat to all hell in every circumstance.
 

slw_as_fk.8

Member
First Name
Jordan
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Threads
9
Messages
30
Reaction score
10
Location
City of Industry, CA
Vehicle(s)
2019 Sonic Grey Pearl Civic Type R
Country flag
You're really going to have a hard time with fighting a dealership especially if they know this is your first manual that you learned to drive on and within a year you're claiming there is an issue.

All I'm saying is really do your homework and be sure you can 99% replicate it and prove that it isn't you or your going to have tons of frustration with the dealership.

I will agree the car is meant to be driven, it's a drivers car, but that does not necessarily mean it can be beat to all hell in every circumstance.
Yeah for sure. I definitely don’t beat the hell out of my car all the time haha but its nice to know it can be reliably driven hard when need be so better to try and fix it now under warranty even if it’ll be a pain in the ass. The grinds are more frequent with harder driving but I definitely don’t want it to be grinding even on just regular driving conditions either which its been grinding occasionally on just normal shifting. Appreciate the feedback though!
 

slow_delsol

Senior Member
First Name
Joel
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
50
Reaction score
19
Location
Canada
Vehicle(s)
2021 Honda Civic Type R
Country flag
I’ve bought three different used Acura RSX’s over the years.

1. 2002 RSX base model
2.2003 RSX type S
3.2006 RSX type S

Every single one of them came with a notchy feeling 2nd gear and would pop out of 3rd while driving. I tried replacing the transmission fluid with Honda fluid. It would usually resolve the issue for 1000 Kms before coming back again. I ran GM syncromesh which fixed the problem in all three of my transmissions. It never returned for the entire time I owned all three of my RSX’s.

I remember countless members on Clubrsx going the dealerships for warranty. Some people were able to get new transmission under warranty. I don’t think I ever read a case where the problem was fixed by replacing the transmission or syncros. IIRC Acura eventually released a TSB but it never addressed the problem.

It’s unfortunate to hear that Honda still hasn’t figured out this problem in their k-series transmissions. I just ordered a 2021 Type R. I plan to put GM syncromesh right away.
 


SiR

Senior Member
First Name
nick
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
138
Reaction score
62
Location
canada
Vehicle(s)
Civic Si, 2020 Civic Type R
Country flag
...... lol: good Lord please close this thread already lol (with a born on date of 2017)..... it consists of : I'm a perfect manual driver and dealership this and that.... I'm not bashing anyone on here but - honestly - you play you pay (no matter what the platform is). How often do you hear about non abused (Karen driving non road raging) FK8 tranny's with issues ......
I have to disagree with you here. If we all think this way, Honda would have even less motivation to change things next time.

FK8 isn't my first manual, and coming from older Si and other sticks, I will say the FK8 does have a more obvious tendency to grind and gear lockout out of factory. This is certainly a quality oversight. Before you say anything, I had a 10 gen Si, and that car I had absolutely 0 issues with fast shifting and even banging the gears, like the lancer evo X I drove before. The FK8, as much as i love it, has so far, the most issues with shifting, and it does detract a lot of fun from it.

If you don't have those issues, good for you, seriously, coming from another car guy. But you don't have to come here and trash talk everyone just mentioning concerns and solutions....
 

xXoVrKiLLXx

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Threads
50
Messages
840
Reaction score
661
Location
SC
Vehicle(s)
2019 Type R ABM
Wasnt trash talking anyone, my apologies if I came off that way- post deleted.
 
Last edited:

ctrsg

Senior Member
First Name
CTR
Joined
Dec 19, 2020
Threads
3
Messages
79
Reaction score
16
Location
SG
Vehicle(s)
FK8
Country flag
[would installing a rear motor mount help?
 

JohnEBlaze

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Threads
6
Messages
192
Reaction score
129
Location
fTX
Vehicle(s)
‘18 CW Type R
Country flag
Summary of this thread is people to can't drive stick or beat the shit out of their cars have grinding issues...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


 


Top