The Infamous 2nd Gear Crunch

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Rottboy

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...........what I'm calling a gear grind, see the video below........ A crunch or notchiness is a noticeable lack of smoothness experienced when going into gear. If you've ever grinded, you'll know..............[/MEDIA]
Hi Zep2, watched the video but even before that I knew exactly what you where referring to. Trust me, this old senior fart has driven, many an English car from the past that all had none syncronized gears!!! (my very first vehicle owned was a '67 MG Midget RHD - 1st and reverse were non-syncronized) That crunch truly sounds like "death". Had no choice but to double-clutch into those gears!!!
From the detailedness of your instructional, am certain you know your stuff and, again, a valuable contribution to this forum.
Let's hope the CTR owners who are experiencing this problem and still possess a factory warranty heed the advise to visit a Honda dealership and have the problem documented, at the very least.
Hoping to enjoy my drive in the next few weeks. Cheers!!!
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BoostedDreams

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To everyone experiencing a second gear grind, the first thing you should do is adjust your clutch pedal free-play. This has been said many times in this thread and I haven't come across a single person who's done it and still reports grinds.

(See my note in the tips below about increasing clutch pedal travel as this was a crucial step in eliminating my grinds.)

So while you may be tempted to throw money at the problem, don't. Grab the necessary tools, get on your hands and knees, and adjust the free play. A different manual transmission fluid, a modified master or slave cylinder, a new shift knob, etc. aren't going to fix it.

Fellow forum-member Lust posted a very helpful video for the FK8 Type R:




There are a bunch of other videos that give you different perspectives that are also very useful to watch:








Some tips I can offer having personally done it myself:
  • Grab something soft to kneel on to protect your knees. Also, throw down a towel on the bottom of your door sill to protect the paint from scratches from your jeans, zippers, etc.

  • You might feel better marking the original position of the rod with a marker in case you ever want to return to factory spec for some reason. You'll want to use a good quality permanent marker as the rod is pretty greasy and can wipe the marker off if you're not careful.

  • Once you've found the point of resistance on the clutch master cylinder rod, tightening the lock nut will likely undo some of the adjustment you just made. You might want to turn the rod a bit further past the point of resistance to compensate for any undoing that might happen.

  • Important: In my case, I still had a grind shortly after adjusting just the rod. It took lengthening the clutch pedal travel for them to completely go away. I loosened the clutch pedal stopper two full counter-clockwise turns. You'll need to re-adjust the rod to the new point of resistance after lengthening the travel, so best adjust the pedal travel first before you do the initial rod adjustment so that you don't end up having to adjust the rod twice in total.

  • The bite point of your clutch will inevitably now be higher from the floor. It's something you'll have to get used to.

It's beyond me why Honda dealerships all the way up to R&D in Japan haven't figured this out.
I just did this on my 19 CTR and went for a test drive. WOW. Literally cured my problem! No more 2nd gear grind! You literally feel the change in the shift.. it’s seamless, no slop. I am SO happy I was able to get this resolved without having to buy a bunch of parts and change fluids etc..
I am no longer frustrated with the driving experience in my R.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING!
Edit: I only adjust the CMC rod
 

Kekela98a

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I just did this on my 19 CTR and went for a test drive. WOW. Literally cured my problem! No more 2nd gear grind! You literally feel the change in the shift.. it’s seamless, no slop. I am SO happy I was able to get this resolved without having to buy a bunch of parts and change fluids etc..
I am no longer frustrated with the driving experience in my R.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING!
Edit: I only adjust the CMC rod
Did the same thing last week and so far it solved my Grinding issue.
 

Lust

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To everyone experiencing a second gear grind, the first thing you should do is adjust your clutch pedal free-play. This has been said many times in this thread and I haven't come across a single person who's done it and still reports grinds.

(See my note in the tips below about increasing clutch pedal travel as this was a crucial step in eliminating my grinds.)

So while you may be tempted to throw money at the problem, don't. Grab the necessary tools, get on your hands and knees, and adjust the free play. A different manual transmission fluid, a modified master or slave cylinder, a new shift knob, etc. aren't going to fix it.

Fellow forum-member Lust posted a very helpful video for the FK8 Type R:




There are a bunch of other videos that give you different perspectives that are also very useful to watch:








Some tips I can offer having personally done it myself:
  • Grab something soft to kneel on to protect your knees. Also, throw down a towel on the bottom of your door sill to protect the paint from scratches from your jeans, zippers, etc.

  • You might feel better marking the original position of the rod with a marker in case you ever want to return to factory spec for some reason. You'll want to use a good quality permanent marker as the rod is pretty greasy and can wipe the marker off if you're not careful.

  • Once you've found the point of resistance on the clutch master cylinder rod, tightening the lock nut will likely undo some of the adjustment you just made. You might want to turn the rod a bit further past the point of resistance to compensate for any undoing that might happen.

  • Important: In my case, I still had a grind shortly after adjusting just the rod. It took lengthening the clutch pedal travel for them to completely go away. I loosened the clutch pedal stopper two full counter-clockwise turns. You'll need to re-adjust the rod to the new point of resistance after lengthening the travel, so best adjust the pedal travel first before you do the initial rod adjustment so that you don't end up having to adjust the rod twice in total.

  • The bite point of your clutch will inevitably now be higher from the floor. It's something you'll have to get used to.

It's beyond me why Honda dealerships all the way up to R&D in Japan haven't figured this out.
I’ve been saying this since forever yet no one listens and/or people are not adjusting the clutch correctly.

If the adjustment is done correctly like how I demonstrate in the video, this should alleviate the grinding which is caused by clutch drag. If you’re still experiencing grinding you may need to change your fluid and bleed your clutch.

If anyone has questions feel free to ask me. The adjustment, if done correctly, should make a significant difference
 

shadow

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Something to take note of. These adjustments and solutions have to be done before the synchronizers have too much damage. Once they are beyond a certain state, these solutions won't be as effective.
 


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So I may be a moron... but is this possible to do while the bracket is still attached to the clutch pedal? Maybe I’m looking for the nut in the wrong spot? I found the CMC and the nut at the end of the rod. But can’t get it loose.
 

zeppelin2

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So I may be a moron... but is this possible to do while the bracket is still attached to the clutch pedal? Maybe I’m looking for the nut in the wrong spot? I found the CMC and the nut at the end of the rod. But can’t get it loose.
You don't have to remove anything. Have a look at the "Clutch Pedal Freeplay | Honda S2000" video, which shows the adjustment being made inside the car, to make sure you're turning the lock nut in the correct direction. Mine was very tight from factory and took a good amount of force to undo the first time.
 

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So I may be a moron... but is this possible to do while the bracket is still attached to the clutch pedal? Maybe I’m looking for the nut in the wrong spot? I found the CMC and the nut at the end of the rod. But can’t get it loose.
it’s really tight. Once i cracked it loose, I hit the corner of my hand on something hard. Been hurting since. Wear a cushioned glove if you can.
 

Brooksumw89

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Okay will do. Thanks. I didn’t want to torque on it too hard and break something. I think I’ll try adjustment first and then go GM synchromesh next if needed
 

BoostedDreams

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Okay will do. Thanks. I didn’t want to torque on it too hard and break something. I think I’ll try adjustment first and then go GM synchromesh next if needed
Yeah man just get under so you’re facing the pedal from below, use a 12mm open end wrench ? and rotate it counter clockwise. You’ll know when you break it loose. Then loosen it a few turns, rotate the rod clockwise until it’s snug on the CMC and then lock the nut back. Make sure the pedal is still hitting the rubber stopper before the rod bottoms out like one of the videos shows.
 


Brooksumw89

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Yeah man just get under so you’re facing the pedal from below, use a 12mm open end wrench ? and rotate it counter clockwise. You’ll know when you break it loose. Then loosen it a few turns, rotate the rod clockwise until it’s snug on the CMC and then lock the nut back. Make sure the pedal is still hitting the rubber stopper before the rod bottoms out like one of the videos shows.
Would the rubber stopper piece be the actual pedal adjustment part further up? I’m assuming make sure it’s resting flush when not depressed, so that the play is gone?
 

BoostedDreams

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Would the rubber stopper piece be the actual pedal adjustment part further up? I’m assuming make sure it’s resting flush when not depressed, so that the play is gone?
Yeah, it’s not part of the CMC. It rests on it when it’s not depressed.
 

batman900

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I explain that in the video. Get an open ended 12 wrench. Loosen the jam nut by going clockwise. Turn the rod clockwise until you feel resistance. Add about a quarter turn after resistance. Tighten up the jam nut by going counterclockwise.
Thank you a bunch for the explanation. Easiest thing I've done on this car so far.

quick question: Is there not supposed to be that free play in the rod from the factory? Like was that a mistake during assembly? Mine was very loose and took 2-3 full turns before I got resistance. I pretty much did as you instructed, turned until resistance, added a little more then tightened. Haven’t driven it yet to test anything. I didn’t mess with the pedal travel.
 

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Can people doing this for the first time keep track of how many turns it takes until they start to feel resistance? I wish I had counted mine when I first did the adjustment, might have been as low as half a turn. Curious to see the variance in factory settings.

Update: For the number of turns to have meaning, the initial adjustment would have had to have been done with the clutch pedal stopper in its factory setting. Remember, changing the pedal travel distance in turn affects the pedal free play (i.e. increasing pedal travel increases free play and thus requires more turns of the CMC rod before you start to feel resistance).
 
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batman900

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Can people doing this for the first time keep track of how many turns it takes until they start to feel resistance? I wish I had counted mine when I first did the adjustment, might have been as low as half a turn. Curious to see the variance in factory settings.
I thought I was going the wrong way at first because of how much I was able to turn mine lol.
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