The dealers are crazy

NapalmEnema

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Thanks for clearing it up. It makes sense. I even agree. Im my particular case I use a si as a daily driver. I saw a type r at the dealer and thought it was great looking. I can afford it so I said hey why not. Honestly , if I was going to track it or do anything other than use it as a daily runner I would probably value it more.
Honestly the car even without a track is the most entertaining car to just drive. Dunno - I think you should go test drive a used type R then really decide

 
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Honestly the car even without a track is the most entertaining car to just drive. Dunno - I think you should go test drive a used type R then really decide
I’ve driven one. It’s a sweet ride. Big upgrade from the si. i thjnk the car is great. it is a blast to drive.
 

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Honestly the car even without a track is the most entertaining car to just drive. Dunno - I think you should go test drive a used type R then really decide
It's funny because I test drove a used one before committing to buying mine. I was actually really disappointed most of the test drive........until I hit some open backroads and a few tight ass corners at open throttle ? instantly sold.

But I've heard of people leave the driver's seat underwhelmed and I can totally see it if you don't really push the car. It's not an event at low speed like some loud ass corvette or muscle car is.

But when you rev it out and feel it glued around a corner, it's glorious. More than enough to get you in trouble on the street if you keep it above 4K and bounce of the red line like a maniac (aka my back road commute to work everyday).
 

NapalmEnema

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It's funny because I test drove a used one before committing to buying mine. I was actually really disappointed most of the test drive........until I hit some open backroads and a few tight ass corners at open throttle ? instantly sold.

But I've heard of people leave the driver's seat underwhelmed and I can totally see it if you don't really push the car. It's not an event at low speed like some loud ass corvette or muscle car is.

But when you rev it out and feel it glued around a corner, it's glorious. More than enough to get you in trouble on the street if you keep it above 4K and bounce of the red line like a maniac (aka my back road commute to work everyday).
You get it my friend, you get it indeed!

My sister has a ZL1, and never understood the Type R. I drove her car expecting to just be blown away I mean it's 650hp? Just felt like a big quick cadillac - no soul no omg no visceral connection with the road. The Type R, this one, is just special - dunno they just nailed it.

Did you go from an earlier Type R to a 19 my friend?
 

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With cars like these, I avoid used. It may look stock but never know what's been done and removed.
A lot of older folks bought the Type R and regretted it. I have met them here in the south at car meets.

Most car enthusiasts (like me) who have driven manual cars in the past, are not used to this new style of manual cars where the clutch is soft, friction point is barely felt, clutch delay valves are installed, etc...

I, along with so many others, have been used to a firm clutch pedal, strong engagement point, and no weird tunes where your power and torque is limited in the most important gears: 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear.

90% of Used Type Rs are returned back to the dealer because of these reasons:

1. Owners noticing inconsistent clutch engagement
2. Owners struggling to get clean shifts in the lower gears
3. Bought in the summer months and the Type R can feel slow in summer, especially with that torque and power limiting tune from 1st - 3rd gear. The Type R is boost by gear. You make full-power in 4rth, 5th, and 6th ONLY. Those are your racing gears. Some older Type R owners returned the car immediately after finding that out.
4. New owner grinds gears a few times when shifting from 1st to 2nd and gets frustrated, decides to get rid of the car immediately.

**********

When used Type Rs are sold with a LONG laundry list of mods and low mileage, that is a HUGE red flag for me.

Why would someone spend 5k on wheels and tires, lower the car, change the shifter, change the spoiler, add canards, stickers, new shift knob, tune, etc.....and then put the car up for sale within a few months of ownership? Some have no reason to sell the car other than wanting to move on (another red-flag). Some have reasons of garage issues, when they have been living in the same location for 10 + years and knew about their garage situation before buying the car. (also doesn't make sense)

1. I think some of those Type Rs are put up for sale because the owners ruined the god-damn car with all those mods. Some mods can be taste-less, and actually hurt the performance of the car. We've all seen them. Plus, I think it's easy to go overboard on mods.....sometimes less is more.

2. Putting springs on a Type R, and super-wide wheels and tires, are grounds for sloppy handling. If you're going to lower the car, just find some decent coil-overs like TEIN or whatever is out there these days for the Type R. Don't install lowering springs on such a performance car like the Type R. That's not doing the car any justice.

3. Some people tune the car and can't pass inspection in their state.

4. We have some tinkerers that start make adjustments to the clutch pedal travel and make the pedal travel too much, causing the pressure plate to over-extend. Then when they go to lower the travel back down a little after feeling the over-extension, the clutch no longer disengages completely, creating clutch drag. You literally feel it when shifting from any gear to another gear.


You guys have no idea what I hear and see at car meets in South Carolina. We have a HUGE amount of Type R owners here, and we are all close.

Be careful what you do to your car. Modding is fun, and can have many benefits, but be really careful and take incremental steps if making adjustments to the clutch pedal or anything in the drive train.
 
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BryanCO

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A lot of older folks bought the Type R and regretted it. I have met them here in the south at car meets.

Most car enthusiasts (like me) who have driven manual cars in the past, are not used to this new style of manual cars where the clutch is soft, friction point is barely felt, clutch delay valves are installed, etc...

I, along with so many others, have been used to a firm clutch pedal, strong engagement point, and no weird tunes where your power and torque is limited in the most important gears: 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear.

90% of Used Type Rs are returned back to the dealer because of these reasons:

1. Owners noticing inconsistent clutch engagement
2. Owners struggling to get clean shifts in the lower gears
3. Bought in the summer months and the Type R can feel slow in summer, especially with that torque and power limiting tune from 1st - 3rd gear. The Type R is boost by gear. You make full-power in 4rth, 5th, and 6th ONLY. Those are your racing gears. Some older Type R owners returned the car immediately after finding that out.
4. New owner grinds gears a few times when shifting from 1st to 2nd and gets frustrated, decides to get rid of the car immediately.

**********

When used Type Rs are sold with a LONG laundry list of mods and low mileage, that is a HUGE red flag for me.

Why would someone spend 5k on wheels and tires, lower the car, change the shifter, change the spoiler, add canards, stickers, new shift knob, tune, etc.....and then put the car up for sale within a few months of ownership? Some have no reason to sell the car other than wanting to move on (another red-flag). Some have reasons of garage issues, when they have been living in the same location for 10 + years and knew about their garage situation before buying the car. (also doesn't make sense)

1. I think some of those Type Rs are put up for sale because the owners ruined the god-damn car with all those mods. Some mods can be taste-less, and actually hurt the performance of the car. We've all seen them. Plus, I think it's easy to go overboard on mods.....sometimes less is more.

2. Putting springs on a Type R, and super-wide wheels and tires, are grounds for sloppy handling. If you're going to lower the car, just find some decent coil-overs like TEIN or whatever is out there these days for the Type R. Don't install lowering springs on such a performance car like the Type R. That's not doing the car any justice.

3. Some people tune the car and can't pass inspection in their state.

4. We have some tinkerers that start make adjustments to the clutch pedal travel and make the pedal travel too much, causing the pressure plate to over-extend. Then when they go to lower the travel back down a little after feeling the over-extension, the clutch no longer disengages completely, creating clutch drag.


You guys have no idea what I hear and see here at car meets in South Carolina. We have a HUGE amount of Type R owners here, an we are all close.
:dunno:
 

BryanCO

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There's a lot of Honda dealerships across the country, so when you expand your search to be nationwide it becomes a lot easier. Even if only 1% of dealerships are selling at MSRP, you'll find one if you're willing to call a couple hundred of them.

I sold my CW '19 for $41k, and paid 3k to upgrade to a CBP '21. It wasn't the color I wanted though, so I called around, found a dealership selling a CW at MSRP, and am reselling the CBP for $43k, which covers the entire MSRP purchase + shipping.
I was following your fs thread. So you ended up selling the black CTR?
 

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I am clear on supply and demand. I will also agree its worth whatever the individual is willing to pay for it. I cant begrudge anyone thats willing to pay way above sticker if they value it. like other things people can decide for themselves how bad they want it. I will say I agree that the limited model with only 600 produced is a rare bird. although its considered limited the regular version there are lots available. and in my 2 day search I have found a couple of other colors for 1-2 k of msrp. so they are available.
I agree with you but it seems people are offended at the thought of someone wanting to pay the msrp price. If nobody pays the markups they will sell at msrp as opposed to never selling. But what do I know. The other poster doesn’t seem to realize one thing. If things were as he says I shouldn’t even be able to find one. But opinions are like bung holes everyone has one and most peoples stink.
You don’t seem to understand supply and demand. People have paid above MSRP (your ‘markups‘) for the CTR for over four years and with the current supply issues for the CTR (end of production) and overall supply issues for cars, people continue to do so. We applaud those wanting to pay MSRP but it’s just silly to say everyone should just demand/pay MSRP so that dealers would then be ‘forced’ to sell at MSRP.
 
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Gabbman

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You don’t seem to understand supply and demand. People have paid above MSRP (your ‘markups‘) for the CTR for over four years and with the current supply issues for the CTR (end of production) and overall supply issues for cars, people continue to do so. We applaud those wanting to pay MSRP but it’s just silly to say everyone should just demand/pay MSRP so that dealers would then be ‘forced’ to sell at MSRP.
I am very clear of supply and demand. I am also clear of perceived demand and actual supply. And if the demand was as strong as you percieve it to be. There would be zero (none) available. The fact is some dealers have been sitting on the same cars for weeks. Maybe you will remember the perceived toilet paper shortage vs what actual demand was.. buyers have been told there’s a shortage ,high demand,limited production . If you take personal thought out of it. The American buyer pool for a manual, 4cyl turbo non awe turbo for over 40k is not as high as you may think it is. I could give you many more real world examples but you don’t seem to be interested in looking t the overall picture. But quick lesson. When demand exceeds supply. There are none of the product available.
 

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I am very clear of supply and demand. I am also clear of perceived demand and actual supply. And if the demand was as strong as you percieve it to be. There would be zero (none) available. The fact is some dealers have been sitting on the same cars for weeks. Maybe you will remember the perceived toilet paper shortage vs what actual demand was.. buyers have been told there’s a shortage ,high demand,limited production . If you take personal thought out of it. The American buyer pool for a manual, 4cyl turbo non awe turbo for over 40k is not as high as you may think it is. I could give you many more real world examples but you don’t seem to be interested in looking t the overall picture. But quick lesson. When demand exceeds supply. There are none of the product available.
You have no clue what I think other than I think it’s clear you don’t understand supply and demand.
 


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Gabbman

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You have no clue what I think other than I think it’s clear you don’t understand supply and demand.
Your correct. And I think it’s you that don’t understand supply and demand. So we can just agree that your wrong
 

Deleted member 47337

As I started my search for a type r. I found most dealers in my area of nj have 1 or 2 available. So I thought “Hey this isn’t hard to find”. The. I began calling and emailing. Every one of them are asking 10 k over sticker. Lol. I do want one and I would pay sticker. so I say you can find them pretty easy but finding them at a reasonable price is the hard part. I don’t want it bad enough to pay over sticker. So if anyone sees on at sticker please post here.
I hope you get a badass CW Type R, man. Don't give up. I think you can get one for MSRP, or slightly more...not 8-10k more, though. That's too much.

Don't give up and keep searching....also keep checking up on those dealerships a few weeks later. They might do it....you never know.
 

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You get it my friend, you get it indeed!

My sister has a ZL1, and never understood the Type R. I drove her car expecting to just be blown away I mean it's 650hp? Just felt like a big quick cadillac - no soul no omg no visceral connection with the road. The Type R, this one, is just special - dunno they just nailed it.

Did you go from an earlier Type R to a 19 my friend?
I hear you. Those things are crazy fast. I considered a 1LE before buying the R and got to drive a regular SS. They are really fast......but I felt it was too much for the street, so much that it actually wasn't all that fun to drive. Also felt bloated and heavy.

I've only owned my '21 but the test drive was with a '19. Really happy I was able to get a facelift car in my favorite color ever......everything just worked out perfect with this car, which is the exact opposite experience I had with my previous GTI lol

I am very clear of supply and demand. I am also clear of perceived demand and actual supply. And if the demand was as strong as you percieve it to be. There would be zero (none) available. The fact is some dealers have been sitting on the same cars for weeks. Maybe you will remember the perceived toilet paper shortage vs what actual demand was.. buyers have been told there’s a shortage ,high demand,limited production . If you take personal thought out of it. The American buyer pool for a manual, 4cyl turbo non awe turbo for over 40k is not as high as you may think it is. I could give you many more real world examples but you don’t seem to be interested in looking t the overall picture. But quick lesson. When demand exceeds supply. There are none of the product available.
Well, a new one at MSRP is a little over $40K with taxes and fees......and MSRP cars were selling in transit all over the country before even the peak of the covid car market crazyness.

It's undeniable the demand for these is sky high. The supply is also relatively low. Those cars you mention are usually a stupid amount over MSRP, like $5-10K. But try to sell a brand new one right now for "only" $1-2K over and you'll have a line of people begging to purchase it. A 2 year old used one with 30K miles for $42K? Sure......not even the current market may justify that crazyness.
 

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Will they sell it way over MSRP? Yes, eventually.

Salesman are commission-based.

You're there now, willing to buy, f the sales manager. Team up with the salesman and get it at MSRP.

Then get it lower because you lost their trust trying to over charge you. With the shortage of new cars, a sell is a sell and Honda will be quick to send another vehicle.

Best time negotiations work; end of the month and on rainy days.
 

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Will they sell it way over MSRP? Yes, eventually.

Salesman are commission-based.

You're there now, willing to buy, f the sales manager. Team up with the salesman and get it at MSRP.

Then get it lower because you lost their trust trying to over charge you. With the shortage of new cars, a sell is a sell and Honda will be quick to send another vehicle.

Best time negotiations work; end of the month and on rainy days.
P.S. tell them some bs you and your family/friends have always bought vehicles because of fair treatment.

P.S.2 pull the same psychological tricks they pull on you. Get the salesman to sign an arbitrary piece of paper saying he will do whatever he can to sell this car to you, today.

Read or listen to this book, it will help you influence others
Robert Candoli The Psychology of Influence

 

 
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