Test drove a 2017 Civic Touring, and I am disappointed at how good it is

n2da2nd

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Another sport touring owner here with 20k on the clock. Purchased new back in 2018 and I have not had any regrets with it. Just like @amirza786 said, I was surprised to see how well the car has performed over the years. Drive it everywhere including long road trips with one trip that averages 45mpg!
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I totally agree, the Si would kill the Touring on the track, but it's not that far behind in handling. Anyway, forget what I said about the leather seats rant, I wish they had just put a little bit more into making the Si's interior just little more solid. Even if it brought the cost of the car up by $500, I think it would be worth it and kept the car affordable. The pricing of the touring is really not that much different from the Si, although I do agree that they spent their dollars in different areas (engine, tires, suspension and LSD for the Si and comfort/noise reduction and additional driving tech in the Touring)
I think you might be surprised at the difference when pushing past 8/10. IMHO, that's where the Si shines. The LSD maintains 50/50 traction of the inner/outer wheel while the Touring uses brake vectoring (AHA) to try and accomplish a similar "feeling," but not the same net performance effect.

Nearly everything else described, has more to do with the wear & tear impact of the stiffer chassis. Molding and connection points are nearly identical, especially around the problematic A-pillar. Though I wouldn't have minded paying extra for a 2017 with LEDs and leather center console. ;)
 
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amirza786

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I think you might be surprised at the difference when pushing past 8/10. IMHO, that's where the Si shines. The LSD maintains 50/50 traction of the inner/outer wheel while the Touring uses brake vectoring (AHA) to try and accomplish a similar "feeling," but not the same net performance effect.

Nearly everything else described, has more to do with the wear & tear impact of the stiffer chassis. Molding and connection points are nearly identical, especially around the problematic A-pillar. Though I wouldn't have minded paying extra for a 2017 with LEDs and leather center console. ;)
As I mentioned, the Si outperforms all other Civic trims except the Type R. I was more ranting about the fit/finish and comfort. It was like two different groups built the interior/exteriors
 

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I am looking to replace my daughters 2006 Toyota Camry SE with a newer, more fuel efficient car. Although the Camry at almost 150K is still extremely reliable, it has a 3.3L V6 that averages 22 mpg on a good day. And my 19 year old daughter is a led foot. So I am looking at either a used Corolla or Civic. Yesterday I test drove a 2017 Civic Touring with CVT and 30K on it. It was really nice. I mean really, really nice. So why am I disappointed? Well, because I don't understand why this car has extremely comfortable seats, has very little NVH, is very isolated from the road, good build quality and....NO RATTLES! And my Si had almost none of those except the rattles!

The funny thing about this car is that it has less power and torque than the Si, but it actually "feels" almost as fast. It doesn't have the same suspension setup (or LSD) but it handles really well. And it's quiet. and it doesn't make any clunking sounds on rough roads.

What I am saying is if anything, there was more attention paid in the build quality, from the comfortable leather seats (why can't the Si have leather seats?) to the materials used in the interior, which are definitely better. Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised
I wonder if how its performance feels is due to the CVT. As far as quality and leather seats, it weighs more. If I had to guess, they use lighter materials in the Si to keep the weight down (only about 40 lbs by the looks of it for 2017, but 80lbs in 2020).

Any way you look at it, if she has a heavy foot, don't buy her a faster one.. ;)
 
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There's one little "secret" that's not mentioned very often. The fact that the non-Si turbo's power was underrated quite a bit by Honda. My personal belief is that Honda did that so the base motor wouldn't step on the Si's toes so to speak. That's one of the big reasons the difference in 0-60 numbers is relatively slight. That and of course that second shift the Si needs to 60 and the CVT in L keeping the non-Si at full power.

Here are two dynos from Hondata, both done on the same dyno. Both done on 91 octane.

Base 1.5T
Honda official stock numbers: 174hp/162 tq
Dyno'd by Hondata (stock) at 190hp/185tq
(16hp/23tq higher than official numbers)

17_civic_cvt_stock_87_oct_vs_91_octane_plus_6_psi.gif



Si
Honda's official stock numbers: 205hp/192tq
Dyno'd by Hondata (stock) at 205hp/212tq
(same hp/ 20 more tq than official numbers)

2017-civicsi-plus6-power-torque.gif
 
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amirza786

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There's one little "secret" that's not mentioned very often. The fact that the non-Si turbo's power was underrated quite a bit by Honda. My personal belief is that Honda did that so the base motor wouldn't step on the Si's toes so to speak. That's one of the big reasons the difference in 0-60 numbers is relatively slight. That and of course that second shift the Si needs to 60 and the CVT in L keeping the non-Si at full power.

Here are two dynos from Hondata, both done on the same dyno. Both done on 91 octane.

Base 1.5T
Honda official stock numbers: 174hp/162 tq
Dyno'd by Hondata (stock) at 190hp/185tq
(16hp/23tq higher than official numbers)

17_civic_cvt_stock_87_oct_vs_91_octane_plus_6_psi.gif



Si
Honda's official stock numbers: 205hp/192tq
Dyno'd by Hondata (stock) at 205hp/212tq
(same hp/ 20 more tq than official numbers)

2017-civicsi-plus6-power-torque.gif
The above numbers by Hondata must be at the crank, the Two Step numbers showed at the wheel (WHP) on the Si was around 187
 

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I'm pretty sure those are crank numbers, just like the official Honda numbers.
 

Civics4Ever

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As I mentioned, the Si outperforms all other Civic trims except the Type R. I was more ranting about the fit/finish and comfort. It was like two different groups built the interior/exteriors
I read somewhere that the cars built in Canada were a more solid build than the ones built in Indiana.
 

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I read somewhere that the cars built in Canada were a more solid build than the ones built in Indiana.
I heard that too. Matter of fact, I made sure the car I bought was built at the Alliston plant.:cool:
 

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I heard that too. Matter of fact, I made sure the car I bought was built at the Alliston plant.:cool:
Honestly... I feel like it may be true. My 2017 coupe (from Alliston) had a lot less build quality issues compared to my CTR (from Swindon), which is disappointing. However, since the CTR is a performance car, maybe the extra vibrations increase the chance of it happening? Who knows. My coupe was rock solid though.
 

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Straight line performance will certainly be close between all the 1.5l civics, but the lsd and stiffer suspension on the si would leave me to believe that cornering performance would be noticeably superior
Straight line they're close. I remember watching a special on youtube though. And I'm pretty sure the Si had a noticeable difference in time around the road course. The Si is geared towards taking turns and handles amazing for a 23k-25K car. How many cars pull a .97G skidpad for that price? The touring model is a dope ride though. I think it's the most expensive Civic. Excluding the R. It has all the bells and whistles with leather. Def a more comfortable car for cruising and daily driving.
 
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FC3L15B7

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There's one little "secret" that's not mentioned very often. The fact that the non-Si turbo's power was underrated quite a bit by Honda. My personal belief is that Honda did that so the base motor wouldn't step on the Si's toes so to speak. That's one of the big reasons the difference in 0-60 numbers is relatively slight. That and of course that second shift the Si needs to 60 and the CVT in L keeping the non-Si at full power.

Here are two dynos from Hondata, both done on the same dyno. Both done on 91 octane.

Base 1.5T
Honda official stock numbers: 174hp/162 tq
Dyno'd by Hondata (stock) at 190hp/185tq
(16hp/23tq higher than official numbers)

17_civic_cvt_stock_87_oct_vs_91_octane_plus_6_psi.gif



Si
Honda's official stock numbers: 205hp/192tq
Dyno'd by Hondata (stock) at 205hp/212tq
(same hp/ 20 more tq than official numbers)

2017-civicsi-plus6-power-torque.gif
I had seen pictures of dyno charts showing Honda's SAE numbers were WHP on the dyno. Ever see or heard of that? They had an Si at 205 hp or something really close to 205 (can't remember exactly) at the wheels on their dyno runs. Their Type-R runs were 303 WHP or something really close again to the crank numbers. It was and is believed that Honda underrated the 10th gen civic on purpose. I have looked around since and haven't been able to find those charts, but I'm positive I saw them a few months before I bought my Si.
 

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Straight line they're close. I remember watching a special on youtube though. And I'm pretty sure the Si had a noticeable difference in time around the road course. The Si is geared towards taking turns and handles amazing for a 23k-25K car. How many cars pull a .97G skidpad for that price? The touring model is a dope ride though. I think it's the most expensive Civic. Excluding the R. It has all the bells and whistles with leather. Def a more comfortable car for cruising and daily driving.
No kidding, eh? Most cars that do over 1G have massive tires and cost way, way more.
 

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I had seen pictures of dyno charts showing Honda's SAE numbers were WHP on the dyno. Ever see or heard of that? They had an Si at 205 hp or something really close to 205 (can't remember exactly) at the wheels on their dyno runs. Their Type-R runs were 303 WHP or something really close again to the crank numbers. It was and is believed that Honda underrated the 10th gen civic on purpose. I have looked around since and haven't been able to find those charts, but I'm positive I saw them a few months before I bought my Si.
That's news to me about the Honda numbers being at the wheels. :dunno:

Here's the wheel hp/tq numbers Derek Robinson got on his Si dyno run...

tsp.gif
 

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That's news to me about the Honda numbers being at the wheels. :dunno:

Here's the wheel hp/tq numbers Derek Robinson got on his Si dyno run...

tsp.gif
Sorry, if I wasn't clear. It was Honda's crank numbers. They ran the Civic Si and Type-R each on the dyno and the WHP turning out were the same or very close to Honda's crank numbers, depending on which trim.
 

                           
































































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