Technical Si brake pad questions

[bdwebb2]

Good evening all, I have a 2020 Si sedan and am looking to replace the brake pads (front and rear) for something that ticks a couple boxes that are apparently very specific (I’m nit-picky about how a car feels, and stock the pedal just feels a bit squishy, even after bleeding). These are the “features” I am looking for, y’all feel free to chime in if you know of a brake pad that works!

1. Pedal feel - Stock brakes just don’t feel like they bite down until you get deeper into the pedal, looking for a pad with very high initial bite.

2. Heat range - I’m not looking for a race-type pad that has to be warmed up to 500 degrees to provide bite, as it is still a daily street car first (spirited driving, of course, but not a track toy kinda deal)

3. Not INSANELY dusty - I can live with some brake dust as I clean my car atleast once a week and maintain a coating on them at all times, but if my front wheels have a bronze hue after a five-minute drive, I suppose that might be a bit much.

4. Ideally will be ”friendly” to the stock rotors, as I would love it if I don’t have to replace the rotors on a brand new car too, but if that’s what it would take, I would absolutely appreciate the recommendation.

I very much appreciate any and all who take the time to read this post and if you have experience with a particular pad, please do let me know what you think would suit my needs (desires might be a more fitting word). Thanks!

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[zspeed]

What is your style of driving? Spirited or relaxed? This will be a factor on what pads and rotors you need to get.

 

[bdwebb2]

What is your style of driving? Spirited or relaxed? This will be a factor on what pads and rotors you need to get.

I would definitely say I drive the car quite spiritedly, for the most part. While it is also the vehicle which I drive between Dallas and Houston about once a week, it is very much driven to its limits frequently.

 

[zspeed]

I would be looking for pads that will be like the equivalent of Powerstop Z26 (street warrior) or higher and match it with slotted discs as the OEM discs will warp from constant abuse.

For the rears, you can go with Hawk pads.

 

[KingOfBrussels]

I've had good experience with EBC RedStuff being an especially low-dust pad with good performance.

Definitely *don't* get StopTech Sport, those are dusty as all hell.

Other pad options that are supposed to be relatively low dust (but I haven't used these myself) are Carbotech 1521, Hawk HPS 5.0, PowerStop Z23.

Pedal feel can be improved with braided stainless brake hoses. Makes for a firmer pedal as the stock rubber hoses can expand in response to the hydraulic pressure.

 

[boibuddha]

What is your budget for brake pads?

These are two good sites to look at for brake pads: Tirerack.com for everyday pads (they provide a score card for power, noise and dust) and KNSBrakes.com for race pads (in the details section, they tell you the heat range and recommended use for each pad)

My personal favorite pad for everyday driving (anything below 80 MPH) is the Centric Posi-quiet Pads. Great initial bite, good stopping power compared to OEM that was very easy to modulate. They are also dead quiet with the least of amount of dust for any pad I've tried. Plus, they are cheap on RockAuto.

These are NOT a performance pad though; they left me wanting a little more stopping power at ~90+ MPH, but that's no different than the OEM pads.

I would not hesitate to put these in any car, including my parents' cars.

 

[bdwebb2]

I would be looking for pads that will be like the equivalent of Powerstop Z26 (street warrior) or higher and match it with slotted discs as the OEM discs will warp from constant abuse.

For the rears, you can go with Hawk pads.

I appreciate the recommendation! I will say, I have experience with the PowerStop Z26 on a 2006 Ford Mustang GT and they just don’t come close to having the initial bite that I’m looking for (that is, comparing the Z26 with the previous pads, presumably stock).

I have also read up on Hawk HP, HP+, HPS, and 5.0 (I believe that’s all of them, LOL), and it seems they, too, have multiple complaints that the initial bite is not their strong suit.

I am beginning to find out just how difficult what I am searching for is going to be to find, given the relativity subjective nature of brakes, particularly in the “pedal feel“ department.

Thank you again for your input.

 

[bdwebb2]

I've had good experience with EBC RedStuff being an especially low-dust pad with good performance.

Definitely *don't* get StopTech Sport, those are dusty as all hell.

Other pad options that are supposed to be relatively low dust (but I haven't used these myself) are Carbotech 1521, Hawk HPS 5.0, PowerStop Z23.

Pedal feel can be improved with braided stainless brake hoses. Makes for a firmer pedal as the stock rubber hoses can expand in response to the hydraulic pressure.

I am very happy to find someone who has experience with an EBC pad, as it seems there are so many conflicting opinions of them online (one person absolutely adores them, the next had the pad material separate from the backing plate on the street!). Would you say their initial bite is on a higher level than the OE pads?

I know I probably sound extremely stubborn where the feel is concerned. I have always had a bit of a spongy-feeling pedal since I had the calipers powder coated (in comparison with my 19 Sport sedan), but I’ve had myself convinced there was simply still air in the lines; after bleeding, I noticed little or no difference in the feel (definitely got some air out, but didn’t address my issue), and solely because of this I have decided to see about upgrading the pads, so the last thing I want to do is get a pad that doesn’t even accomplish the one goal I had for it, if that makes sense.

I have also considered braided stainless brake lines, but I have been told by multiple friends with experience with them that legitimately the only time they even felt the difference was with the engine off and after pumping up the brakes, and for the cost I’m looking for more of an improvement, thus the brake pads, which would not only address this issue, but also hopefully increase the stopping power as well.

Thank you for chiming in!

 

[bdwebb2]

What is your budget for brake pads?

These are two good sites to look at for brake pads: Tirerack.com for everyday pads (they provide a score card for power, noise and dust) and KNSBrakes.com for race pads (in the details section, they tell you the heat range and recommended use for each pad)

My personal favorite pad for everyday driving (anything below 80 MPH) is the Centric Posi-quiet Pads. Great initial bite, good stopping power compared to OEM that was very easy to modulate. They are also dead quiet with the least of amount of dust for any pad I've tried. Plus, they are cheap on RockAuto.

These are NOT a performance pad though; they left me wanting a little more stopping power at ~90+ MPH, but that's no different than the OEM pads.

I would not hesitate to put these in any car, including my parents' cars.

I don’t have a particular budget that I must adhere to, but ideally I’d find a sub-$300 set (that is, for all four corners). I know there are some options that are far less than that, and I’d definitely be tickled if one of those would serve the purpose they need to, but if it’s a more expensive pad that fits the bill, then that is the route I will be taking.

I have just recently come across KNSBrakes.com, actually, funny you’d mention it. They have, in fact, put me on to another brand that I didn’t ever really give the light of day, and that is Carbotech, as they specifically claim that it has excellent initial bite, which caught my eye for sure. Do you by chance have any experience with either the 1521 or the AX6 from Carbotech?

In regards to the Posi-quiets, it definitely looks to be right along the lines of what I’m searching for, I’m just not sure if I want to settle and just swap out for a pad with comparable stopping power to the OE pads. I do definitely appreciate your input, particularly in pointing out that they have good initial bite in your experience.!

 

[boibuddha]

...Do you by chance have any experience with either the 1521 or the AX6 from Carbotech?

In regards to the Posi-quiets, it definitely looks to be right along the lines of what I’m searching for, I’m just not sure if I want to settle and just swap out for a pad with comparable stopping power to the OE pads. I do definitely appreciate your input, particularly in pointing out that they have good initial bite in your experience.!

Sorry, I do not have any experience with the Carbotech pads.

The closest experience I have to something similar would be Ferodo DS2500 in my friend's GTI. The DS2500s walk the line between track and street pad; they squeak on the first couple cold stops in the morning but are lower dust compared to normal OE German brake pads. The initial bite in everyday driving is average, but the stopping power gets better with a little heat in them.

I don't think their is a pad that can do it all.
Most race pads use metal which is dusty, but provide good initial bite.
Ceramic pads don't normally have good initial bite, but are gentle and low dust.

I think the Posi-Quiets are pretty close to perfect (up until go to jail speeds), especially if you are using all season tires.

 

[KingOfBrussels]

I am very happy to find someone who has experience with an EBC pad, as it seems there are so many conflicting opinions of them online (one person absolutely adores them, the next had the pad material separate from the backing plate on the street!). Would you say their initial bite is on a higher level than the OE pads?

I know I probably sound extremely stubborn where the feel is concerned. I have always had a bit of a spongy-feeling pedal since I had the calipers powder coated (in comparison with my 19 Sport sedan), but I’ve had myself convinced there was simply still air in the lines; after bleeding, I noticed little or no difference in the feel (definitely got some air out, but didn’t address my issue), and solely because of this I have decided to see about upgrading the pads, so the last thing I want to do is get a pad that doesn’t even accomplish the one goal I had for it, if that makes sense.

I have also considered braided stainless brake lines, but I have been told by multiple friends with experience with them that legitimately the only time they even felt the difference was with the engine off and after pumping up the brakes, and for the cost I’m looking for more of an improvement, thus the brake pads, which would not only address this issue, but also hopefully increase the stopping power as well.

Thank you for chiming in!

I had EBC Reds a few cars ago with a Mazdaspeed 6. I liked them. Their dust is more of a light gray and not excessive. No noise, only took a slight bit of getting heat in them to get up to full braking capacity, but they're still good in colder temps. I've seen scattered reports of various people have them separate from the backing pads where that scares people off. I feel like that's a car forum urban legend that gets repeated more often than it actually occurs.

I've gone through many different pads on many different cars and I was happiest with the EBC Reds. My last car before the Si was a BMW 335 and the BMW forums hate on the EBCs pretty hard while riding StopTech's jock. So I bought into the hype and got the StopTech Sports instead of EBC Reds and I regretted the hell out of it. Frequent noise, terrible dust, uneven pad deposits. Never again.

As per your other question about the Carbotechs the only one you should mess with is the 1521. The AX6 is an autocross pad similar to the Hawk HP+. I haven't used any Carbotech pads but I did have a set of HP+ on a Miata. They were fantastic at stopping but high noise and dust.

I just bought my Si so I'm not changing out the pads immediately but for me it'd be between the EBC Reds and the Carbotech 1521s. I've read that the 1521s actually have less initial bite than other pads which helps with modulation but you have to stand on the pedal more heavily than other pads. But they're also supposed to last a long time.

I've put stainless lines on several of my cars and I felt they made a noticeable difference in pedal feel. The pedal is firmer all the time and makes it easier to modulate braking force while slowing down aggressively, or heel-toeing.

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