Stock tune + Tail of the Dragon and HPDE track events

[cammyfive]

So I'm one those guys that keeps going back and forth, often several times a day, about whether to tune my 2020 Si or just leave it stock in the power adding department. Part of my thinking is that have a trip planned to the mountains and Tail of the Dragon later this Summer as well as scheduling a few HPDEs at Road Atlanta when it's back open for such events hopefully later this Summer. I know a lot of folks here with either TSP Stage 1 or comparable tunes claim they "beat" on their car and it's worked flawlessly but usually their definition of beating on their car is doing a 40-120mph a few times against another car. I would argue that track driving or driving the Tail of the Dragon aggressively (320 turns in 11 miles so your car is usually towards the high end of the rpms the entire time in 2nd gear with aggressive throttle) and other mountain driving is much more punishing.

Again, maybe I'm just a middle aged guy that is more risk averse than when I modded cars in my early 20s but with the boost these tunes push I'm not sure I want to tune a 5000 mile new car and risk catastrophe and be (rightly) denied a warranty claim. Plus, this car is my DD so, honestly........and I'm ready for folks to call me any names they wish, but it has enough power for DD and to be semi-fun.

How many of you have done/are doing events like a track weekend or Tail of the Dragon with a stock tune? I should add that I'm not 100% stock as I'm waiting for my upgraded intercooler and charge pipes to ship from PRL and will have that installed before any of this. I also have Michelin PS4S tires which are awesome.

Other plans:

*Stainless steel brake lines with DOT4 fluid
*Upgraded pads and rotors (Honda rotors have been a weak link in aggressive driving for 2+ decades now)
*Whiteline 22mm RSB with Accord end links (ordered and waiting on shipping)

I've watched the 10th gen Si testing at VIR for One Lap and it was impressive for what it was. Just curious how many of you are stock power wise (or at least almost stock) and how it feels/holds up during these events?

Sponsored

 

[DmK]

I mean I’m sure Honda did a good job tuning the engine ECU, but they were limited by the government rules about environment. Tune is usually allow you to get more from your car by disregarding those rules.
TSP stage one is usually a save tune because it’s allows to alter your engine settings by switching different settings (map 1 factory settings, map 2 -19/23psi, map 3 - custom boost) which in my opinion you safe to daily drive it even with map 3 if you not hitting on the car constantly.
The beat way is custom tune if person is know what his doing, since every engine is little bit different, especially since you installing aftermarket charge pipes.

At least that’s how I’m understanding it.

 

[SouthSideBeef]

So I'm not stock anymore since I have TSP stage 1 flashed to my car. But when I was stock I spent some time driving in the Georgia mountains and I had a blast. My car was 100% stock and honestly I was pushing it pretty hard so I almost cooked the brakes completely. Overall the car handled it very well and I had a ton of fun.

My first time at the tail of the dragon I was on the 23psi Ktuner basemap and I put Hawk 5.0 pads on the front brakes. With the added power I still smoked the brakes at the end of the dragon. I think you'll be fine if your running stock power with upgraded pads, even if you're pushing the car hard. But once you add more power, I would suggest getting a big brake kit for mountain driving or the track. I picked up a 27Won BBK that I haven't installed yet but it should help a lot next time I'm at the dragon.

Btw I've had no reliability issues driving my car hard on TSP Stage 1.

 

[Si_NSX904]

I'm in the same situation, I'm most likely going to install everything I can before I have to tune. Maybe summer next year, I'm leaning towards Hondata.

 

[jrschultz]

If tracking and very aggressive driving is your focus I would focus on tires, brakes, and suspension before power. A car driven as hard as you plan to needs to be able to stop and turn before going faster. I'm in a different situation than you. I drive curvy country roads briskly, but I will likely never be in a situation that I can cook the brakes. Thus, I chose power first to blast straights. With that being said, my next move will be to do upgraded tires and brake pads. I think you should do the opposite as I did. Just my two cents worth.

 

[mikegold]

Interesting that I found this post right now, as I came on looking to formulate a mod plan. Like you, mine is completely stock and I'm a middle aged guy who doesn't want to blow his engine. I did my first track day at Road Atlanta today. My only mods are Nexen tires (200 treadwear), carbotech XP-8 brake pads and Motul fluid. Best I could do is a 1:54, which I think is pretty good considering I used to run 1:36-1:38 in a fully prepped dedicated track only 370Z with 340+ wheel hp.

What I found was that on a 90 degree day in Atlanta, towards the end of a 20 minute session, the brake pedal starts to get just a tiny bit soft. I think one of my first mods is going to be to try to fabricate some sort of brake ducts.

But, I could definitely use a little bit more power, as it seems like a dog from 3500-6500 rpm in the upper gears.

video of today


So, aside from tune, anyone reading, where should I start?

 

[mikegold]

also, the temperature gauge stayed rock solid at the same place all day long with the stock tune.

 

[Deezy]

If I can do it in my *ahem* LX, I can assure you that you will be fine. I pushed mine hard at the Dragon last year.
Hell, I even ran with the aggressive group all weekend and the car took it like a champ!

 

[charleswrivers]

I’m not a super aggressive driver but I didn’t think my Si had any issues on its TSP Stage 1 tune doing the Dragon or Skyway in ‘19. The straights are so short in the Dragon that you really don’t develop much speed in the constraints of staying in your lane. I didn’t have the nerve to push it hard in the skyway as the longer straights would allow you to get more speed than I was comfortable with... so I drove that area more conservatively and the car took to it fine. Stock or TSP stage 1, mind you I had the OEM summer tires... I think there’s not enough power there given the Dragon to push the car too hard. 7/31/18 will be 2 years on me having my car run TSP stage 1 with the 24.5# map being my default (map 1) map. The car has been fine. If not for COVID cancellations, I’d of done the Dragon for a second time this past spring.

 

[cammyfive]

Interesting that I found this post right now, as I came on looking to formulate a mod plan. Like you, mine is completely stock and I'm a middle aged guy who doesn't want to blow his engine. I did my first track day at Road Atlanta today. My only mods are Nexen tires (200 treadwear), carbotech XP-8 brake pads and Motul fluid. Best I could do is a 1:54, which I think is pretty good considering I used to run 1:36-1:38 in a fully prepped dedicated track only 370Z with 340+ wheel hp.

What I found was that on a 90 degree day in Atlanta, towards the end of a 20 minute session, the brake pedal starts to get just a tiny bit soft. I think one of my first mods is going to be to try to fabricate some sort of brake ducts.

But, I could definitely use a little bit more power, as it seems like a dog from 3500-6500 rpm in the upper gears.

video of today

So, aside from tune, anyone reading, where should I start?

Sweet! What club did you go with? I was under the assumption that their events were still postponed due to COVID19.

I actually haven't run at Road Atlanta before but did do a half dozen weekends in my BMW at VIR when I lived in Raleigh until last year. I actually went he opposite way of what I'm planning this time. On that car I did custom dyno tune 2 months after I got it, then a downpipe and retune, then I added Michelin PSS and the M Big Brake Kit. Even though my car was an M-Sport trim it came with the terrible base model brakes. Parts and labor on the M-BBK was, well, I'm almost ashamed to tell you how much that was.

As I mentioned, my PRL intercooler and charge pipes will ship out July 1st (I believe) and I did order the ProCivic grille which will add a tiny bit of extra air flow for cooling. I changed the garbage all-season Firestones to Michelin PS4S on the first warm day down here in late February. Otherwise, I think s/s brake lines, DOT4 (Motul) fluid, and some better pads/rotors will make the car safer cooling wise, stickier with the tires, and less prone to fade with better braking. All that being said, it is hard to resist a tune on this car as it's decently peppy as is and judging by user experience and plenty of YouTube videos it gains a nice percentage of power for not a lot of money.

 

[cammyfive]

If I can do it in my *ahem* LX, I can assure you that you will be fine. I pushed mine hard at the Dragon last year.
Hell, I even ran with the aggressive group all weekend and the car took it like a champ!

Haha, my old-school way of thinking is more apt to trust the N/A engine in your car than a F/I small turbo that I have. I do get what you're saying, on that road, the more lightweight albeit lesser powered cars do better.

 

[cammyfive]

I’m not a super aggressive driver but I didn’t think my Si had any issues on its TSP Stage 1 tune doing the Dragon or Skyway in ‘19. The straights are so short in the Dragon that you really don’t develop much speed in the constraints of staying in your lane. I didn’t have the nerve to push it hard in the skyway as the longer straights would allow you to get more speed than I was comfortable with... so I drove that area more conservatively and the car took to it fine. Stock or TSP stage 1, mind you I had the OEM summer tires... I think there’s not enough power there given the Dragon to push the car too hard. 7/31/18 will be 2 years on me having my car run TSP stage 1 with the 24.5# map being my default (map 1) map. The car has been fine. If not for COVID cancellations, I’d of done the Dragon for a second time this past spring.

Totally with you on that. ToD doesn't really allow you to get up to too much speed and any full throttle application might last 2-3 seconds at best. I must admit, in my previous car, I preferred the Skyway to stretch its legs, albeit with the M-BBK and Michelin PSS tires. The first few trips up there I was definitely very conservative, but knowing the car and the roads know I am more confident yet still cautious.

Not sure if you heard recently, but Fontana Village Lodge gave up their lease and TVA is now back in charge of that property. Hopefully a new investor or some entity comes along as the lodge was really the most convenient place to stay up there. I've checked on some AirBnB rentals but the closest (decent) one was in Robinsville.

 

[mikegold]

I am running with Jzilla Track Days this weekend. On July 11-12 Just Track It is doing an event, but I am working. I also run with NASA (used to instruct, but don't anymore, not worth it), and there are BMWCCA, PCA and Chin Track days that also do regular events there.

For Covid restrictions, they take your temp before entering in the morning and you are supposed to wear a mask anytime you are out of your car. All instructed groups are lead-follow rather than in car instruction.

 

[cammyfive]

I am running with Jzilla Track Days this weekend. On July 11-12 Just Track It is doing an event, but I am working. I also run with NASA (used to instruct, but don't anymore, not worth it), and there are BMWCCA, PCA and Chin Track days that also do regular events there.

For Covid restrictions, they take your temp before entering in the morning and you are supposed to wear a mask anytime you are out of your car. All instructed groups are lead-follow rather than in car instruction.

Awesome. I've done a few with NASA and the rest with the BMACCA. Actually my first one a few years back was with a group called Hooked On Driving and I thought that one was the best as far as organization and instructor quality, not sure if it's still a group that is active or not.

 

[charleswrivers]

Totally with you on that. ToD doesn't really allow you to get up to too much speed and any full throttle application might last 2-3 seconds at best. I must admit, in my previous car, I preferred the Skyway to stretch its legs, albeit with the M-BBK and Michelin PSS tires. The first few trips up there I was definitely very conservative, but knowing the car and the roads know I am more confident yet still cautious.

Not sure if you heard recently, but Fontana Village Lodge gave up their lease and TVA is now back in charge of that property. Hopefully a new investor or some entity comes along as the lodge was really the most convenient place to stay up there. I've checked on some AirBnB rentals but the closest (decent) one was in Robinsville.

We shall see. I've written off going the next few years as I'll be off shore duty and back on a boat so I don't see me making it. I've had this car for 2.5 years... we shall see if I still have it in another ~3 years when I retire or stick around for another shore duty. I'm starting to feel close to my expiration date.

The skyway really was a lot of fun... and it was a beautiful view... but I'd pass on being in the moderate group... let alone aggressive in the future. I had my whole family with me and the speeds I had to make to keep up with the car in front was beyond what I was willing to do so I let the car in front pull away. Speeds at the top of 3rd gear was my limit. If I ever make it again, I'd just stick with the relaxed group and just wish they'd go a little faster.

For the dragon...? I was in 3rd here and there but most of the time I just remember holding good speed in the corners and staying in 2nd. I drove it a few times before our group drive... and took it up a notch that morning to the point I managed to get my oldest car sick. It was fun hearing her laugh with her face in a bag here and there. Other than the really tight turns exceeding 90 degrees... I wasn't on the brakes really heavy and I thought the stock brakes did fine. I had made sure to swap the brake fluid before what would have been a return trip this year as the car was approaching 3 years and the MM had just tripped anyways... but... I guess it wasn't meant to be.

It'd be nice to stay at Fontana again... but even a stay in Robinsville wouldn't be too bad. The route leading up to the Dragon before you hit the dam was like Dragon-lite and a good warm up before the real-deal. That week we got there most of Fontana's facilities... the pool... the arcade... it was all shut down. I was able to play a little putt-putt w/the kids but they hadn't gotten it ready and it was covered with debris when we played. I'd planned to stay an extra day or two to do more exploring around the area as doing all the group stuff and leaving right afterwards meant I didn't do as much as I'd of liked in the area. We were going to blast over to Dollywood for a day after the this meet. Was a shame it didn't happen.