Stock tune + Tail of the Dragon and HPDE track events

mocaSi

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I live 15 minutes from tail of the Dragon. I daily drive my 17 Si with tsp stage 1 and regularly assault the dragon. Trust me, you won't regret tuning with tsp before your mountain trip. IMO it's a must for mountain driving now that I know the difference. I've had nothing but great reliability and flawless performance from this tune ie no clutch slip.
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st4xor

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Similar situation, signed up for my first ever HPDE in Sept. No immediate plans to do power mods (I'll have plenty to learn, and brakes/handling will be first as I progress), but I am starting to keep tabs on how far I might push things in the future.

FWIW, I saw a guy post on FB about a blown turbo/engine during a track day (looks like Thunder Hill) while running TSP stage 1. I assume Map 3 based on the comments--sounds like he wishes he had run Map 2 instead. Hard to tell what exactly happened, video starts with him entering the track from the paddock and ends about 2.5 minutes later after about 2 laps and the car noticeably down on power. Not a lot of context about other mods or history, but the poster claims the stock turbo failed first. No abuse that I noticed in the video--just some quality time in the upper range of the tach like you would expect on track.

Grains of salt, for sure, but it's a data point...

Honda Civic 10th gen Stock tune + Tail of the Dragon and HPDE track events Screenshot_20200621-153425~3
 

DmK

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Similar situation, signed up for my first ever HPDE in Sept. No immediate plans to do power mods (I'll have plenty to learn, and brakes/handling will be first as I progress), but I am starting to keep tabs on how far I might push things in the future.

FWIW, I saw a guy post on FB about a blown turbo/engine during a track day (looks like Thunder Hill) while running TSP stage 1. I assume Map 3 based on the comments--sounds like he wishes he had run Map 2 instead. Hard to tell what exactly happened, video starts with him entering the track from the paddock and ends about 2.5 minutes later after about 2 laps and the car noticeably down on power. Not a lot of context about other mods or history, but the poster claims the stock turbo failed first. No abuse that I noticed in the video--just some quality time in the upper range of the tach like you would expect on track.

Grains of salt, for sure, but it's a data point...

Screenshot_20200621-153425~3.jpg
Such failures are usually not a result of one day track event but a constant abusing of a car on a long period or a simple mistake during manufacturing turbo (which sometimes also occurs). Common problem with turbos it’s not enough oil lubrication, that is why it’s highly recommended to change all fluids before track day.
 
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cammyfive

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Similar situation, signed up for my first ever HPDE in Sept. No immediate plans to do power mods (I'll have plenty to learn, and brakes/handling will be first as I progress), but I am starting to keep tabs on how far I might push things in the future.

FWIW, I saw a guy post on FB about a blown turbo/engine during a track day (looks like Thunder Hill) while running TSP stage 1. I assume Map 3 based on the comments--sounds like he wishes he had run Map 2 instead. Hard to tell what exactly happened, video starts with him entering the track from the paddock and ends about 2.5 minutes later after about 2 laps and the car noticeably down on power. Not a lot of context about other mods or history, but the poster claims the stock turbo failed first. No abuse that I noticed in the video--just some quality time in the upper range of the tach like you would expect on track.

Grains of salt, for sure, but it's a data point...

Screenshot_20200621-153425~3.jpg
Good to know!!!

I do agree that there may have been other contributing factors, but these tiny turbo 1.5L engines are not meant to run 25psi for long durations, such as a track day. Well, the unlucky guy who blew his may not have even had a intercooler so that poor turbo was blowing nothing but hot air so it was doomed.

I'm obviously not an engineer or engine tuner but I don't feel terribly secure running a high psi tune on my car and doing a track day. I know the torque and extra power are intoxicating to younger buyers in particular but it does come at a cost.
 


utahsi

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So I'm one those guys that keeps going back and forth, often several times a day, about whether to tune my 2020 Si or just leave it stock in the power adding department. Part of my thinking is that have a trip planned to the mountains and Tail of the Dragon later this Summer as well as scheduling a few HPDEs at Road Atlanta when it's back open for such events hopefully later this Summer. I know a lot of folks here with either TSP Stage 1 or comparable tunes claim they "beat" on their car and it's worked flawlessly but usually their definition of beating on their car is doing a 40-120mph a few times against another car. I would argue that track driving or driving the Tail of the Dragon aggressively (320 turns in 11 miles so your car is usually towards the high end of the rpms the entire time in 2nd gear with aggressive throttle) and other mountain driving is much more punishing.

Again, maybe I'm just a middle aged guy that is more risk averse than when I modded cars in my early 20s but with the boost these tunes push I'm not sure I want to tune a 5000 mile new car and risk catastrophe and be (rightly) denied a warranty claim. Plus, this car is my DD so, honestly........and I'm ready for folks to call me any names they wish, but it has enough power for DD and to be semi-fun.

How many of you have done/are doing events like a track weekend or Tail of the Dragon with a stock tune? I should add that I'm not 100% stock as I'm waiting for my upgraded intercooler and charge pipes to ship from PRL and will have that installed before any of this. I also have Michelin PS4S tires which are awesome.

Other plans:

*Stainless steel brake lines with DOT4 fluid
*Upgraded pads and rotors (Honda rotors have been a weak link in aggressive driving for 2+ decades now)
*Whiteline 22mm RSB with Accord end links (ordered and waiting on shipping)

I've watched the 10th gen Si testing at VIR for One Lap and it was impressive for what it was. Just curious how many of you are stock power wise (or at least almost stock) and how it feels/holds up during these events?

I have a 2020 si and have been tracking it very hard this year both on open track days and HPDEs. I have kept the car completely stock engine wise.

my only mods are :
High temp Brake Fluid
Stoptech track day pads
Falken 660 or Bridgestone re-71r tires ( any 200 tread )

I ran the car for nearly 4 hours yesterday in 92 F with 15 minute brakes between each hour and the car was perfectly fine. I almost got the stainless brake lines but honestly im glad i diddnt, but if you have the money then go for it since you will be flushing the brake fluid anyway. Also, I ran the stop tech pads on the factory rotors and when the rotors were done i put on centric blanks. Ive always ran centric blanks on my track toys and its the affordable way to go and the performance is fine.

I think you should keep the stock tune, and focus on being faster in the turns. I find more and more seconds every time i go the track.
 

ApexEight

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I have a 2020 si and have been tracking it very hard this year both on open track days and HPDEs. I have kept the car completely stock engine wise.

my only mods are :
High temp Brake Fluid
Stoptech track day pads
Falken 660 or Bridgestone re-71r tires ( any 200 tread )

I ran the car for nearly 4 hours yesterday in 92 F with 15 minute brakes between each hour and the car was perfectly fine. I almost got the stainless brake lines but honestly im glad i diddnt, but if you have the money then go for it since you will be flushing the brake fluid anyway. Also, I ran the stop tech pads on the factory rotors and when the rotors were done i put on centric blanks. Ive always ran centric blanks on my track toys and its the affordable way to go and the performance is fine.

I think you should keep the stock tune, and focus on being faster in the turns. I find more and more seconds every time i go the track.
It is so awesome that you can push Sis in these conditions without any issues - a Type R would undoubtedly overheat when subject to the same.
Agreed on Centric rotors offering great value and also not really needing stainless lines. Which Stoptech pads are you referring to? I know Power Stop makes pads actually called Track Day pads. What's next for your Si? More power would be nice but I'd be concerned with clutch slip. Kinda seems like it's the perfect dual duty car with just pads, fluid, and tires.
 

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Similar situation, signed up for my first ever HPDE in Sept. No immediate plans to do power mods (I'll have plenty to learn, and brakes/handling will be first as I progress), but I am starting to keep tabs on how far I might push things in the future.

FWIW, I saw a guy post on FB about a blown turbo/engine during a track day (looks like Thunder Hill) while running TSP stage 1. I assume Map 3 based on the comments--sounds like he wishes he had run Map 2 instead. Hard to tell what exactly happened, video starts with him entering the track from the paddock and ends about 2.5 minutes later after about 2 laps and the car noticeably down on power. Not a lot of context about other mods or history, but the poster claims the stock turbo failed first. No abuse that I noticed in the video--just some quality time in the upper range of the tach like you would expect on track.

Grains of salt, for sure, but it's a data point...

Screenshot_20200621-153425~3.jpg

Uh, what? lol. My first track event is going to be streets of willow CCW and I'm also running TSP stage 1. any way to link that video? This has me concerned slightly and maybe I should reflash back to stock before running the track next month
 

st4xor

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Uh, what? lol. My first track event is going to be streets of willow CCW and I'm also running TSP stage 1. any way to link that video? This has me concerned slightly and maybe I should reflash back to stock before running the track next month
It was in a comment on a post in the "10th Gen Civics" group. You'll have to join the group, but then below is a link to the post. You'll have to dig through the comments to find the video (ugh, Facebook).

I didn't notice anything particularly noteworthy in the video that gives any clues about the failure...

Code:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/667923043325791/permalink/3095058613945543/
 

DmK

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Uh, what? lol. My first track event is going to be streets of willow CCW and I'm also running TSP stage 1. any way to link that video? This has me concerned slightly and maybe I should reflash back to stock before running the track next month
You can just change to map 1 If you worry about it.
 


SHAYN3R

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As much as I love the way my car is setup right now, if I could do it all over again I would’ve kept the motor bone stock and just done suspension, tires, and aesthetics, at least until my warranty was up. When the car was bone stock you could rev it out and it would take much longer to get to speed, but there’s a sense of enjoyment in that. Now even with my basic mods - Phearable stage 1, catless DP, PRL SRI - the car gets up to speed so much quicker and you’re breaking laws so much faster so I’m a little more hesitant now to get on it.
 

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You can just change to map 1 If you worry about it.
On Hondata. Don't have that luxury. I might just flash the basic +6 hondata map or flash a stock-like calibration, monitor temps and gauge it from there
 

mikegold

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I have a 2020 si and have been tracking it very hard this year both on open track days and HPDEs. I have kept the car completely stock engine wise.

my only mods are :
High temp Brake Fluid
Stoptech track day pads
Falken 660 or Bridgestone re-71r tires ( any 200 tread )

I ran the car for nearly 4 hours yesterday in 92 F with 15 minute brakes between each hour and the car was perfectly fine. I almost got the stainless brake lines but honestly im glad i diddnt, but if you have the money then go for it since you will be flushing the brake fluid anyway. Also, I ran the stop tech pads on the factory rotors and when the rotors were done i put on centric blanks. Ive always ran centric blanks on my track toys and its the affordable way to go and the performance is fine.

I think you should keep the stock tune, and focus on being faster in the turns. I find more and more seconds every time i go the track.
I think I am going to stay stock power as well. I was considering doing some engine mods after my first track day, but like you, it was 90F at the track and the temperature gauge never even moved from where it is normally. Its nice to have reliability. I have ordered eibach springs, whiteline sways and RPF1's with Toyo Proxes RR slicks for my next outing though!


I would like to add some brake cooling ducts however, as I felt at the end of a 30 minute session that the brake pedal travel was feeling a little long
 

Fit2Hatch

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As much as I love the way my car is setup right now, if I could do it all over again I would’ve kept the motor bone stock and just done suspension, tires, and aesthetics, at least until my warranty was up. When the car was bone stock you could rev it out and it would take much longer to get to speed, but there’s a sense of enjoyment in that. Now even with my basic mods - Phearable stage 1, catless DP, PRL SRI - the car gets up to speed so much quicker and you’re breaking laws so much faster so I’m a little more hesitant now to get on it.
Sounded like you missed stock tune.

Other than what you stated having catlessDP and PRL SRI, you are basically stock, correct?

Would the two added on makes stock tune that bad if you retune back to stock? Beside, its not like internal was touched, the two added on parts is fairly easy to remove and reinstall stock parts to get back the enjoyment you missed.

I do agree on modify first with Suspension and tires. I would also add light weight wheels, brakes and improve shifting along to transform handling/braking.

After handling/braking, IMO, having added power is great. It's nice to know and having choice of more power but don't have to use it.

I do enjoy following your other thread on Phearable. Thank you!
 

utahsi

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I think I am going to stay stock power as well. I was considering doing some engine mods after my first track day, but like you, it was 90F at the track and the temperature gauge never even moved from where it is normally. Its nice to have reliability. I have ordered eibach springs, whiteline sways and RPF1's with Toyo Proxes RR slicks for my next outing though!


I would like to add some brake cooling ducts however, as I felt at the end of a 30 minute session that the brake pedal travel was feeling a little long
that set up you are going with will be perfect i bet, let me know. I haven't done any suspension work yet

Ive researched brake ducts and no one makes a "kit" for our cars. But i did remove the fog lamp assembly and measured out the space and its possible . the universal brake duct tubing for sale is 3 inches and the fog light opening is exactly 3 inches as well, so it might be possible to have a pretty clean set up.
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