Some closeups of 2017 Civic Hatchback in white

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

Our DX (coupe or sedan) used to come with power windows, no CD player, and no AC, black mirror caps and door handles, 15 inch wheels... again, was also mostly to advertise the super low starting price which was around $14k

Then we had the DX-VP sedan which added the CD player and AC

VW does the same thing with Jetta. Go there and ask for one and they're like 'you want an AM/FM radio and air conditioning? add $2400.' Too bad they can't install turn signals on those things...

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[mvance30]

Hi all, does the EX in U.S.A trim get XM satellite? Just curious because of the shark fin. The only cars that get XM in Canada seem to be the Touring because Honda thinks the people who drive manuals don't need a $50 XM tuner :-(
thnx

I think canada has different agreements with XM radio

 

[Shralper]

More practical and probably heavier by 100 pounds. While i'd loved the coupe to be a liftback like the tC, eclipse, RSX, integra the issue with that setup is that doing a hatch is alot heavier than a traditional trunk setup. It requires more reinforcement around the rear window, plus the hardware needed to lift the back up when opened, it can easily add 100+ pounds of useless weight to the car, hurting performance and fuel efficiency

Hmm. Never really thought about the increased weight due to a lift/hatchback.

I just took a look at my RSX and while I agree the frame adds more weight, i seriously doubt it's 100 lbs...maybe 50 lbs tops. I'm no expert though, and any decrease in weight is a good thing I'll agree.

 

[Design]

There's definitely room in the lineup for more Manual Transmissions. Are they being penalized for making them or what? I mean how many of us would be willing to wait 2-3 months for a 6MT Touring if it was by special order only... I have to think there are hundreds of people willing to go this route.

This is my question as well. There is a niche here - a big one - of enthusiasts that want the engagement of a 6MT, modest power, and the refinement and/or features of a "smaller" upscale car. Ford, VW, and Subaru all target these buyers through upscale, performance oriented offerings over their base compact lineup. Two are FWD hot hatches, and one an AWD sedan. All carry full LED/HIDs, leather, and navigation (among other things).

I think a sub-niche exists among these enthusiasts wanting the upscale features in an efficient FWD sedan or coupe. So while I think the Si will offer amenities similar to the EX; I believe they could offer a second "GT-style" Si trim... similar to how they treated the 9th Gen CTR. The "GT" would offer most of the upscale features with the 6MT. That in turn would separate itself from 1) the other CVT Civic Touring packages, and 2) the DCT-equipped Acura ILX.

Very possible...

 

[DavidJBrooks]

I believe the Chevy Sonic hatch also has the hidden rear door handle. The 9th gen euro civic had the hidden door handle too.

How about first gen Nissan Pathfinder 4 door?

 

[gtman]

It will be interesting to see if the hatch weighs more than the sedan or coupe. If it does, the Sport hatchback may actually be slower than the other models, even though it has a slight bump in power. It also has heavy 18" factory wheels and huge 235/40 tires which are great for cornering but can bog down acceleration off the line (more rotating mass).

Come on Honda release the specs already!

 

[DavidJBrooks]

Guys, read my post before you hate on me ok?

I don't think a hatch Si is coming and it makes complete business sense for Honda.

After all, this will be the most diverse small car lineup ever. You have the basic sedan and coupe in your choice of two engines. You'll have the hotter Si versions of the popular coupe and sedan soon. The turbo hatch is almost here available in mild or wild (Type-R) down the road. That's a helluva lineup.

You have to remember, hatches don't sell as well as sedans or coupes in the US. And if you want a balls to the wall hatch, Type-R is coming.

With all due respect (and no hate, just differing opinions!) - I think it makes no sense to not release an Si hatch, either from a marketing or a business perspective.

Hatch sales in the US are on the rise, and the hatch offerings are increasing rapidly. Honda knows this, and that's why we're getting a hatch again (hopefully a "full" lineup that includes an Si!)
Almost all hatch lines offer a "hotter" version with all the luxo bits AND a bigger motor (and not just a mild engine goosing and simple plastic body work job like the Sport)
There is an ENORMOUS gulf between the 6MT Sport ("mild") and the CTR ("wild") - in fact, the two are almost different vehicles (and certainly have different audiences). There is a third entirely different class that is as of yet untapped - a sporty daily driver hatch ("spicy") with a sunroof and all the buttons. I would venture that an Si hatch would be the best-selling Si variant, and I think Honda knows this.

Honda has done all of the R&D necessary to sell an Si hatch - it's just a matter of bolting together the bits they already have in a different order. Why would a company not leverage the economy of scale to bring in additional profit with very little additional investment? If we don't get an Si hatch, it will be a marketing decision, not a bottom-line one - and they'd be shooting themselves in the foot, business-wise.

If you want to see a "diverse lineup", check out a VW lot. VW has been selling GTIs regularly because Honda gave up on the segment, even though they have a Jetta, Golf, GTI, GLI, e-Golf, hybrid Jetta, Golf R, Golf Wagon and Golf Allroad - all in the same general class and soon to be all on the same platform.

If Honda steps this close to the plate without offering a GTI competitor, it'll be a shame. Even Hyundai is about to bring their hot hatch game to the US.

 

[gtman]

David, I know virtually every single post you've made at this site is regarding an Si hatch. I know you want one. The thing is, Honda isn't making one for the foreseeable future. If they were we would know by now.

By the 2018 MY the lineup will be the sedan, coupe, Si versions of both, the hatch and the R-Type hatch. That's some good variety there.

Maybe sometime after that, we'll see an Si hatch but for the near future, it isn't in the plans.

 

[DavidJBrooks]

David, I know virtually every single post you've made at this site is regarding an Si hatch. I know you want one. The thing is, Honda isn't making one for the foreseeable future. If they were we would know by now.

By the 2018 MY the lineup will be the sedan, coupe, Si versions of both, the hatch and the R-Type hatch. That's some good variety there.

Maybe sometime after that, we'll see an Si hatch but for the near future, it isn't in the plans.

Once again, no disrespect - it's true I would love a hatch, but apart from that, I've been trying to identify any information to support the commonly-held belief that there will be no hatch Si. Maybe somebody has some inside info that they haven't shared, but based on the public info I've seen, there's no reason to think otherwise.

We haven't seen an Si sedan, and - apart from one vague reference that has been interpreted to mean "coupe and sedan" - we have no confirmation that one will show. The actual wording the Honda rep used (something to the effect of "the Si will continue to offered in the the body styles it has been offered in before") could just as easily mean coupe, sedan and hatch - because the Si has been offered in hatch before.

Car and Driver thinks the Si is coming as a hatch. We have no official word from Honda on what body styles the Si will come in, but we have a big magazine calling for all three variants.

As much as I want a hatch Si, I would love to know semi-conclusively that it wasn't coming. As it is, the only things we can reliably say is that the Si is coming as a coupe, and the CTR is coming as a hatch - but if anybody has any inside info or a compelling reading of the facts we do have, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Eddie]

Maybe sometime after that, we'll see an Si hatch but for the near future, it isn't in the plans.

Well said, I can only add that in 06 the Si was released exclusively as a Coupe with no intentions of a sedan. Many enthusiasts went to the boards and mentioned they needed the 2 extra doors as they were older now, had family's etc. It looks like Honda was listening because when the 07 MY came around, a sedan si was on sale. For those wanting one, anything is possible. To be totally honest, if the R wasn't being released and an si is all we had I'd be a little bummed myself as I'd want one too.


But at the same time gtman, I agree that the lineup covers a large area as is, that might just be too much for them.

 

[taigebu]

As much as I want a hatch Si, I would love to know semi-conclusively that it wasn't coming. As it is, the only things we can reliably say is that the Si is coming as a coupe, and the CTR is coming as a hatch - but if anybody has any inside info or a compelling reading of the facts we do have, I'd love to hear it.

I dont know but for me the fact that there are two (extremely slightly) more powerful Sports variant of the hatch is indicative that, at least for now, Honda is just testing the waters.

 

[Design]

I'm with gtman... I think Honda is filling the niches it knows it can sell. The "hot hatch" of the Sport Compact segment is a crowded space. I think Honda knows this.

The CTR, Si Coupe, and Si Sedan all fill areas that are fairly unique. There's really no other all-out FWD hatch in this space (USDM). And there's really no other FWD Sport Compact coupe/sedan besides the GLI right now. At least until Nissan and Hyundai get into the mix.

I'm not ruling out an Si hatch. But I think Honda's waiting to see just how well it does before going head-to-head with the USDM establishment (VW, Ford, Mini, and indirectly Hyundai). The Si Coupe/Sedan have historically sold well, despite being down on power and amenities. I don't expect that to change with this generation.

 

[DavidJBrooks]

I'm with gtman... I think Honda is filling the niches it knows it can sell. The "hot hatch" of the Sport Compact segment is a crowded space. I think Honda knows this.

The CTR, Si Coupe, and Si Sedan all fill areas that are fairly unique. There's really no other all-out FWD hatch in this space (USDM). And there's really no other FWD Sport Compact coupe/sedan besides the GLI right now. At least until Nissan and Hyundai get into the mix.

I'm not ruling out an Si hatch. But I think Honda's waiting to see just how well it does before going head-to-head with the USDM establishment (VW, Ford, Mini, and indirectly Hyundai). The Si Coupe/Sedan have historically sold well, despite being down on power and amenities. I don't expect that to change with this generation.

I'll venture a guess that people don't really care whether it's FWD vs AWD unless they live in the snow or are looking for a particular format to begin with.

The Si isn't alone - in addition to the GLI, you've got the A3 (if you go upmarket), the moribund Dart, the upcoming Sentra SE-R and even (as much as we might think it's bizarre to compare the two) the Corolla S (which can still be had with a 6 speed, unlike the sporty Civics to date). For coupes, there are jazzier Kia Fortes, Scion/Toyota TC, the Toyubarus, and even the BMW 2 series (RWD, natch), the Mini and the upcoming BMW 1 series.

For the bonkers hatch market, we've got the Focus ST/RS (the CTR falls right in the middle there), the Golf R and - if you want to stretch downmarket - the Fiesta ST.

They're all crowded and competitive segments, and only going to get more so. The GTI may have invented the hot hatch thing, but the Civic/CRX Si perfected it - and Honda will own it with the 10th gen hatch.

We'll just have to see. I'm only taking [slight, playful] issue with folks (not you, @Design - you're pretty clear that it's an opinion) stating conclusively, "there will be no Si hatch" - when, in reality, there is really no evidence of that.

 

[taigebu]

We'll just have to see. I'm only taking [slight, playful] issue with folks (not you, @Design - you're pretty clear that it's an opinion) stating conclusively, "there will be no Si hatch" - when, in reality, there is really no evidence of that.

I can't speak for the others but I just have come to terms with the fact that nothing points to the fact that there will be a Si hatch. If they release it then it will be a nice surprise but I don't hold my breath I'd rather be surprised than disappointed

 

[DavidJBrooks]

I can't speak for the others but I just have come to terms with the fact that nothing points to the fact that there will be a Si hatch. If they release it then it will be a nice surprise but I don't hold my breath

I'm not holding my breath either. I'd say there's the same evidence of a hatch Si as there is of a sedan Si.

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