Si vs Focus ST - Has anyone traded to or from?

[SHAYN3R]

I've always loved the Focus ST and still do. I currently drive a 2018 Si sedan and I occasionally feel the need for a hatch.

When comparing features of the two, I can't help but feel like trading my Si for an ST would be anything but a downgrade. It seems like the only thing the ST has on the Si is power.

Has anyone here come from a Focus ST? Are there any regrets? I'm also one who generally goes the full bolt-on route (on pump gas), does anyone have experience with the driving characteristics, power differences, or smiles per gallon between the two cars when both have been modified?

I'm surprised I couldn't find any comparisons on here!

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[ripcord291]

I came from a Mazdaspeed 3 and i was looking at a focus ST or SI and WRX. It is weird more people dont compare these 3 cars more. like you said only thing focus has to me is power coming off the show room floor. But i had a good friend who let me drive his ST and i liked it, but i hope you a smaller type guy cause the seats are TIGHT. Im 6'1 about 250 and i dont think i could daily a ST. that being said i do like they offer leather but after seeing a few pics of katzkin "upgrade" IMO makes the si more worth doing that VS ST. Its been awhile but i feel like the SI has alot more room in the cabin and trunk. Yeah you can fold the seats down in the ST but i still think SI more usable space. Since you like doing FBO i would take the power out of question. You can make any car faster with FBO and a good tune. Every now and then i miss my old hatch, but i gained so much more with this new civic si.

 

[SHAYN3R]

I agree. I don't know how more people aren't comparing these similar cars. I really think the Civic's only downfall is the power in stock form. The only pros to those cars - are in my opinion - the WRX with AWD and the GTI having an interior similar to that of a luxury car.

I have driven a focus ST and I do think the ktuner basemap SI is faster. I know what you're saying about the seats. If they aren't broken in I found them miserable to be in for an extended period of time. The LSD on the civic is a huge advantage as well over the focus. I do love the sounds of the ST and unfortunately our motors don't sound all that great.

I'm interested to hear how they compare FBO vs FBO in a straight line. I believe that the chassis on the SI is better out of the box, especially with the LSD and the weight advantage. I think the Si will always have the edge when it comes to cornering.

 

[SHAYN3R]

Anyone else with any input/experience?

 

[SVO_SVT_ST_Si]

Sweet, something I can actually weigh in on. I daily drove my ST since 2013 until I traded over to the Si in July. I honestly miss a lot about the ST, especially the torque and direct driving feel. Burnouts on demand, and never needed to downshift for passing. I felt it was more aggressive with steering feel and turn-in grip. It had much better feedback with any flick of the wrist. I still don't have a good feel for what the Si is doing when I try to push it. I haven't changed to summer tires on the Si yet which would probably help with the numbness I feel there.

For pushing the limits, so far the two seem quite a bit different. The ST loves to slide a bit and rotate that fat ass out, whereas the stock Si simply goes in whatever direction the wheels are pointed. Both give plenty of smiles per gallon in different ways. I never bothered modding the ST since it was plenty of fun stock. I'm very close to getting a base tune on the Si hoping it will bridge the gap for that power I'm missing.

As for practicality, any four door hatch is comically more useful than the Si coupe. I wouldn't dream of fitting a 55" tv box in the Civic. I'm sure the sedan is better, still with the tradeoff of not fitting those larger things. And the ST has a full spare tire, which I sorely missed after a pothole blowout on day 3 in the civic. The '13 ST had a pretty awful infotainment system, so I can't comment on the newer Ford tech with carplay. Though I wouldn't consider any ST with the poverty spec system. All that said, I personally wouldn't consider another Ford just yet since my ST developed a crankwalk issue at only 80k with no mods. A new hatch Si would win my favor hands down. If it existed.

 

[arnbrian]

Back when I was getting a new car, right off the bat I was going to get an ST. It had power, was a hatch, and looked nice. I test drove one new that was fully loaded and I was quoted around 28K. I could of got a base one for around 21K but the interior and seats were a deal breaker. A friend told me about the SI and I didn't even know about it. After I test drove the SI, I liked it way better in terms of driving dynamics, interior, and the price I was quoted was 21K for basically all the features the ST had (not to forget gas mileage) . You can pick up STs used pretty cheap, I talked to a lot of mechanics about Fords 2.0 T and they never really had anything bad to say about it.

 

[SHAYN3R]

I definitely agree the Si has better driving dynamics. I just don't understand if I'm missing something. They're only about $1000-$2000 used than an SI is new. What is so much better between the two? Perhaps it's the hatch that allows the higher pricing.

I appreciate the input guys! I'm still curious as to how the compare when they're full bolt-on and tuned.

 

[Design]

I came from a 270 WHP MS3, which is essentially a pre-generation Focus ST. It can definitely feel like a downgrade in some areas like the powertrain. The ST's torque and power curve is much fatter in the mid range, which IMHO can make it more fun in stop & go. But the ergonomics are a little less "sporty" than the Si's layout. You feel like you're overlooking a balcony in the ST.

IMHO, the Si's bright spots are the chassis, suspension and shifter. You will feel very low-slung in it, unlike the ST/MS3. Handling feels a bit more artificial in the Si. But the feedback is there. It's very predictable/neutral up to 8/10, until the sidewalls begin to flex. Then you'll feel a hint of understeer as the driver assist kicks in. In Sport Mode you can really push the car hard before the nannies take over. And for my driving style, I really do enjoy it over the more analog nature of the MS3 (which had considerable understeer). I never pushed the ST too hard during my seat time in it. But I was well aware of the oversteer that Ford intentionally dialed into it.

I was always a bit underwhelmed by the Si's torque curve with the 1.5T. But Honda engineered quite a bit of overhead into it. A simple base map tune gave it a much needed kick in the midrange. So now it feels VERY similar to the driving behavior of the MS3/ST. Power builds quick, and stays strong through 5.5K. For a daily, this hit the sweet spot. And combined with aftermarket HIDs, I feel this car is finally a worthy successor to my outgoing Mazda.

 

[Vegas Viking]

I test drove a Focus ST and GTI before purchasing the Si. Of the three, the ST felt "cheap" to me. My wife (who is not into cars at all) felt the same way.

 

[Gdeyarmond]

Kind of an old post but I went from a 2014 FoST ST3 (recaros and my ford touch) with the Ford Perfomance Tune to my 2019 Si sedan. They are different. The Civic's interior space is just astonishing compared to the ST3. The Recaros take up so much interior room and your passengers hate sitting in them guaranteed. The ST is definitely more of a of a frantic fun car. The Si is more of a controlled fun car. The limited slip in the Si makes a massive difference in corners. I loved my ST, but a car seat forced the passenger Recaro against the dash. So I knew it's days were numbered anyways. As far as build quality...the interior on the ST will feel dated no matter what at this point As the driver I loved the Recaros and the frantic feeling of the car, but my passengers not as much. All in all they are similar in terms of fun to drive. ST being faster out of the box and the Si handling better. It's a matter of what you need. The ST hatch holds nothing without putting a seat down, so if you're hauling a family around it is not real fun at a certain point Hit me up if you have other questions. My wife has a 2017 GTI Autobahn if you're looking for GTI input too.

 

[Mattlau]

I came from a st3 focus st and got a civic si. Only thing I liked more about the st is it has more power and the sound system. I live in nyc and the st is very harsh on any bumps or potholes. It isn’t practical and the seats were so bulky, it took half of the interior space. Also the fit and finish on the st was terrible and the gas mileage was horrendous. Stick with the si!

 

[Poletrain]

I'm considering trading right now. I'm actually going to a dealership tomorrow to do a test drive of a 2020 sedan and talk trade in numbers. With 0 seat time in an si, I can at least provide input on my FoST. I've got a 17 ST2 right now.It's a good car and my complaints are all relatively minor and shouldn't appreciably affect a car purchasing decision and I think at the end of the day it's really come down to just that the car isn't for me anymore and I miss Honda. First car was a 2004 civic that I lowered and put wheels on, then I learned stick in a 2004 TSX that I owned for 2 years. All of that is mostly meaningless info, but it provides a back drop for when I got the Focus.

The good for the focus includes the snappy torque, the Recaros in the ST2 or ST3 trim, excellent prices for a used one, diverse and relatively cheap aftermarket, hatchback, overall styling, SYNC 3 infotainment is good for ST2 and ST3, responsive steering, good cornering, power is decent, torque vectoring technology and traction control is pretty good, brakes are excellent.

The bad includes the torque curve peaking at like 2250 and plummeting straight down from there, complete dead zone of power above 5500RPM, 3200 pounds so definitely heavier than the si, black plastic windshield sprayers mounted on the hood, RC car antenna, the resale value is atrocious when buying new (I paid 27k OTD for an ST2 and its 2.5 years old with 41k miles and I'd get at best $15k and more like $12k on trade in, will update after tomorrow), motor reliability (motors will blow on the stock tune and otherwise commonly blow on tuned cars too, way more frequently than other platforms, rings made of jello and pistons made of glass, I blew my motor and I really shouldn't have), opening into the hatch is much narrower than expected (there's a plastic protrusion on each side for the hatch cover to rest on that removes about 4" of opening so there's been times where if the plastic were better designed I could have fit something), headlights are aimed like trash from the factory the cutoff is aimed about 100yds ahead on the ground, fuel economy is GARBAGE I got 31MPG once on a 100% highway trip and have been getting 22MPG on 35-45mph country roads commuting to work in the winter and more like 24MPG in the summer, no LSD so traction is rarely found in 1st gear and when tuned, 1st and 2nd gear will not ever hook above 40% throttle in winter and second still rarely hooked tuned when it was warm because wrong wheel drive but also no LSD, and it's not so bad in the ST2, but if you get in an ST1, dear Lord Ford is cheap. It makes me angry just because the way Ford cuts corners to maximize profit makes me angry and that's why I like Honda. Honda obviously does the same, but they hide the cheap bits and blend them well so it doesn't feel cheap. Ford doesn't try to not make it feel cheap.

Just doing a paper study it looks like the si is comparable power wise. The Focus St only puts about 220WHP to the ground instead of advertised 252BHP. The civic actually puts the advertised number to the ground. That means when you do the power to weight calculation, they are nearly identical and thus the 0-60 time is equivalent, and that's the most important stat to me since I don't high speed stuff at all, I'll touch 100 on a safe straight empty highway every once in a while, but then come right back down to 75. One kind of big negative about the si is also the electronic parking brake. I really enjoy hand brake drifting in the snow in the winter and will certainly miss that a lot.

Will update tomorrow after I actually drive one.

 

[SHAYN3R]

Great info! I'm looking forward to your thoughts after your drive an SI. I will say I'm almost positive the ST will be faster in stock form - in a straight line at least anyways. If you want more power out of the Si I highly recommend the Two step performance stage 1 tune for it. It takes the car from 185whp to 237whp and 205wtq to 281wtq. Honestly the car hauls making that kind of power in a light platform. I came from a stage 2 STI and I don't miss that power level at all with this tune.

I didn't know the Focuses had that many motor issues. There are some Hondas on here that have had engine issues but it is normally due to abuse. If you're after fuel mileage, look no further. Despite what Honda advertises, myself and others have seen over 45mpg on the regular.

When it comes to the twisties having an LSD is huge. That is probably the one thing you'll notice with the Si the most. If you get a chance to push it on your test drive the grip and exit speed/acceleration from a corner is rather impressive.

Looking forward to hearing your input!

 

[Poletrain]

It takes the car from 185whp to 237whp and 205wtq to 281wtq

so test drive didn’t happen yet, they were actually closed yesterday, going on Saturday instead. but Looking at those wheel numbers, I thought I read a bunch about the Si making the advertised numbers to the ground as opposed to the minus 15%. So I guess that’s not entirely true?

 

[xbbnx]

so test drive didn’t happen yet, they were actually closed yesterday, going on Saturday instead. but Looking at those wheel numbers, I thought I read a bunch about the Si making the advertised numbers to the ground as opposed to the minus 15%. So I guess that’s not entirely true?

Not sure where that guy got the 185hp number from, the Si actually gets closer to 200-205hp to the wheels.