Si turbo on non-Si

varge

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Si and non-Si have the exact same compressor wheel, so the efficiency map is the same.
The non-Si is not maxed out in terms of cold air flow at 21psi, however the turbine wheel becomes a bottleneck as the increased amount of exhaust gas is having trouble passing through the narrow 11-blade turbine wheel on the non-Si. In this situation, more airflow through the intake does not result in more power. In fact you will start to lose power after a certain point.
The 9-blade Si turbine wheel is able to expel more exhaust gas, so it allows the compressor wheel to operate on higher flow and still produce decent power.
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Si and non-Si have the exact same compressor wheel, so the efficiency map is the same.
The non-Si is not maxed out in terms of cold air flow at 21psi, however the turbine wheel becomes a bottleneck as the increased amount of exhaust gas is having trouble passing through the narrow 11-blade turbine wheel on the non-Si. In this situation, more airflow through the intake does not result in more power. In fact you will start to lose power after a certain point.
The 9-blade Si turbine wheel is able to expel more exhaust gas, so it allows the compressor wheel to operate on higher flow and still produce decent power.
Honda Civic 10th gen Si turbo on non-Si 1599363350369

Honda Civic 10th gen Si turbo on non-Si 1599363388468
 

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Si and non-Si have the exact same compressor wheel, so the efficiency map is the same.
The non-Si is not maxed out in terms of cold air flow at 21psi, however the turbine wheel becomes a bottleneck as the increased amount of exhaust gas is having trouble passing through the narrow 11-blade turbine wheel on the non-Si. In this situation, more airflow through the intake does not result in more power. In fact you will start to lose power after a certain point.
The 9-blade Si turbine wheel is able to expel more exhaust gas, so it allows the compressor wheel to operate on higher flow and still produce decent power.
That's good to know. I haven't had the time to check on dyno. I'm re-calibrating my calibration because knock count went almost 3 times higher than my stock turbo.

Funny thing knock count consistently return 0 after re-calibration but I felt like I may lose power in the low to mid RPM. ?

The calibration is conservative in terms of boost target with around 20.6 PSI peak boost. I may need to scale up boost target from 4000 to 6000 RPM after dyno.
 

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Well, did the swap last weekend along with the RV6 DP/FP catted combo with ceramic coating I had laying around.It took me like 10 hours to get everything done.
The install was pretty straightforward. I removed the turbo TIP and sprayed PB blaster the night before and everything came off smoothly.

Some recommendations:
Don't lose any bolts/screws ?,
Breaker bar+PB Blaster = best combo ever
Pinch clamps (two at least) if you don't want to lose half a gallon of coolant ?
Magnet on a stick... was a pain in the a** to get the TIP bolts in place.
Check your coolant level after the install

Only been able to take it for a spin two hours since, but everything is working fine like it was before, and it feels a little bit more responsive. Right now I'm using map 2 of the TSP Stage 1 tune, tomorrow I'll use map 3 and see if it feels any different/faster.
I just did the si turbo swap last night and am running tsp stage 1 with a cai 3" catless uppipe downpipe and intercooler with charge pipes. I believe there is more power as my clutch doesnt even hold it in map 3. Map 2 seems to be the go to for now. I will need to take it to drob for a proper tune but first I need to upgrade the clutch so it can handle the power.
 

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W1 turbo is not ideal for my daily driving. SI/CR-V turbo seems suitable for my daily driving purpose. I can afford custom tune but I cannot afford to switch from Flashpro to KTuner. Derek from IMW is the most trusted tuner for our platform & his preferred platform is KTuner.
This is exactly why I'm considering Si/CRV turbo over W1 or PRL big turbo kit.
Try Derf Tuned
 


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Guess what this is? Read your title, then look at the graph.

This is why I have been looking for an Si turbocharger. I don't have to compromise on power because there are gains on both the lowend AND the topend. And the topend doesn't fall off like the non-Si. This is why I don't want a 27Won or PRL. They are a compromise with a larger gain up top with large losses on the bottom. I'll have gains everywhere. An no losses! No compromises! For 1/4th the price of new 27Won. :)

This is all for now. I just like to throw out teasers. :p
Si Turbo vs Non-Si Turbo.jpg
What's happening here man? Is this urs? Is it non-si CVT with si turbocharger?
 

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What's happening here man? Is this urs? Is it non-si CVT with si turbocharger?
It's not mines.
While having my car road tuned, I was asking what turbo would be best for what I'm interested in. I wanted a turbo where I gained through all the rpms ranges, with no loss of horsepower or torque. Derek showed me this dyno graph of an Si vs Non-Si turbo and I was sold. So I took a picture to show people why I made the choice I made, rather than simply saying someone told me it would be better. I couldn't tell you if this is an SI or a Non-Si with an Si turbo. That is important to know, especially with the different drivetrains. My apologies for not being clearer.

I can say that simply changing the turbo and testing at the dragstrip, I gained 2/10ths of a second in the 1/4 mile and 1-1.5mph on the topend. That info will probably not mean anything to most people but it's a data point vs me saying, 'Yeah man, it definitely pulls harder on the topend'. I don't even recommend people do this and to just stay with their stock turbo if they have any fears. It's just that you can find an Si turbo for $300-$400 usually on the forums, Facebook, etc. Which is hella cheap bang for the buck.
 

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Try Derf Tuned
I've checked his social media pages but I'm not convinced because I rarely read Derf Tuned mentioned in tuning review and the only way to connect with Derf Tuned is social media. I'm also looking for tuners who comfortable giving me access to the calibration for me to make some adjustments in case I feel uncomfortable with the knock count number. Yes. I know most people says knock count doesn't matter but it matters to me.

I've been using my own calibration in the last 1 or 2 weeks and it appears to be a solid calibration as it came with 0 knock count in various driving situation. I post a thread with datalog in Hondata section within this sub-forums in case anyone want to see it.

I'll try to find time to dyno the car. It's not the cost of turbo swap and the dyno cost that bothers me but I'm just not sure if the results worth my time to drive to the workshop for power run in weekdays.
 
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highroller

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I've checked his social media pages but I'm not convinced because I rarely read Derf Tuned mentioned in tuning review and the only way to connect with Derf Tuned is social media. I'm also looking for tuners who comfortable giving me access to the calibration for me to make some adjustments in case I feel uncomfortable with the knock count number. Yes. I know most people says knock count doesn't matter but it matters to me.

I've been using my own calibration in the last 1 or 2 weeks and it appears to be a solid calibration as it came with 0 knock count in various driving situation. I post a thread with datalog in Hondata section within this sub-forums in case anyone want to see it.

I'll try to find time to dyno the car. It's not the cost of turbo swap and the dyno cost that bothers me but I'm just not sure if the results worth my time to drive to the workshop for power run in weekdays.
Any reputable tuner won't open his tune for you to fiddle but they would account for your desires and feedback and change parameters and send you revised tune.
I hv tsp stage 1 tune of the shelf made by Derek and that is completely locked apart from BBG menu. Derek's custom tune is completely locked, even BBG is locked too. This is on ktuner. On flashpro I think BBG is also locked.
 
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I've checked his social media pages but I'm not convinced because I rarely read Derf Tuned mentioned in tuning review and the only way to connect with Derf Tuned is social media. I'm also looking for tuners who comfortable giving me access to the calibration for me to make some adjustments in case I feel uncomfortable with the knock count number. Yes. I know most people says knock count doesn't matter but it matters to me.

I've been using my own calibration in the last 1 or 2 weeks and it appears to be a solid calibration as it came with 0 knock count in various driving situation. I post a thread with datalog in Hondata section within this sub-forums in case anyone want to see it.

I'll try to find time to dyno the car. It's not the cost of turbo swap and the dyno cost that bothers me but I'm just not sure if the results worth my time to drive to the workshop for power run in weekdays.
where do you think your power would be on si/cr-v turbo on dyno, i think you should dyno on TSP stage 1 and on your custom made map as well.
 


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Any reputable tuner won't open his tune for you to fiddle but they would account for your desires and feedback and change parameters and send you revised tune.
I hv tsp stage 1 tune of the shelf made by Derek and that is completely locked apart from BBG menu. Derek's custom tune is completely locked, even BBG is locked too.
i think he shifted to custom made map from TSP stage 1 map.
 

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Any reputable tuner won't open his tune for you to fiddle but they would account for your desires and feedback and change parameters and send you revised tune.
I hv tsp stage 1 tune of the shelf made by Derek and that is completely locked apart from BBG menu. Derek's custom tune is completely locked, even BBG is locked too.
I have my own calibration that I created using factory basemap in Flashpro because the custom tune that I had for the stock turbo resulted in knock counts that I wasn't comfortable with.

I need professional tuner service to take a look at my calibration and make optimization for street performance within safety margin for the engine.

where do you think your power would be on si/cr-v turbo on dyno, i think you should dyno on TSP stage 1 and on your custom made map as well.
My custom map with stock turbo was better than TSP in terms of fuel trim. I never have the chance to dyno TSP so I cannot compare power. After I swap my downpipe from stock to PRL catless dp, the car was making 240 hp at crank on stock turbo.

In terms of power after the turbo swap, I think I'm making higher torque at low to mid RPM (1500 to 2500 rpm). Slight improvement from 3500 to 6000 rpm but not by much.
i think he shifted to custom made map from TSP stage 1 map.
Yes, this is true & you've seen my thread in Hondata section about the 0 knock counts calibration.

I have TSP stage 1 for CVT non SI. I don't feel comfortable with torque limit set beyon 300 nm in Flashpro & my STFT required custom tune. LTFT monitoring is not available in South East Asia ECU confirmed by Hondata and KTuner. DRob tried to help but I'm aware TSP tune is a canned tune & it wasn't TSP and DRob esponsibility to fix the stft.
 

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You
I have TSP stage 1 for CVT non SI. I don't feel comfortable with torque limit set beyon 300 nm in Flashpro & my STFT required custom tune. LTFT monitoring is not available in South East Asia ECU confirmed by Hondata and KTuner. DRob tried to help but I'm aware TSP tune is a canned tune & it wasn't TSP and DRob esponsibility to fix the stft.
Where you from Malaysia? Same problem with mine, no LTFT and open loop on wots therefore AFR correction not as intended by tune. I got tsp shelf tune a but revised but no luck there.. eventually will have to get custom tune.
Btw how you measured power at crank? Dynos only measure power to the wheel.
 

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Where you from Malaysia? Same problem with mine, no LTFT and open loop on wots therefore AFR correction not as intended by tune. I got tsp shelf tune a but revised but no luck there.. eventually will have to get custom tune.
Btw how you measured power at crank? Dynos only measure power to the wheel.
I’m from Indonesia. I got custom tune from E-Tunez & it was unlocked so I use the AFM calibration from there but make my own adjustment to EGR Ignition, Knock Ignition Limit, & boost when swapping turbocharger.
Most workshop in my country use Dastek dyno measuring power in BHP instead of WHP. The dyno measures 30 hp higher vs. Dynapack.
 

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I’m from Indonesia. I got custom tune from E-Tunez & it was unlocked so I use the AFM calibration from there but make my own adjustment to EGR Ignition, Knock Ignition Limit, & boost when swapping turbocharger.
Most workshop in my country use Dastek dyno measuring power in BHP instead of WHP. The dyno measures 30 hp higher vs. Dynapack.
I am a bit scared to fiddle with ignition timings.
BTW what is your Av. AFRs on WOT?
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