should i hold off on hondata fuel system

kefi

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Sorry, I'm being excessively terse as I just wrote a long post and need to get back to work. I mean no disrespect. You have help the community immensely.

I think you're missing the constraints I've put on the statement: "IAT below 35C". Then you're saying, well the temperatures are higher than that. I think that's where the interpretation brakes down?

The point is: Ethanol helps cool the camber, which has its benefits: "Since ethanol in Direct Injection (DI) Engines has a higher resistance to knock at higher Intake Air Temperatures, one is able to increase boost, advance the ignition and/or increase compression, which increases efficiency.". Now at lower IATs, there is no need to cool the chamber so the benefit is negligible because you can run higher ignition advance.

I see where you're coming from, though. Perhaps, I should have worded it like, "If your IATs during the application use stay below 35C, there are benefits to flex-fuel.". Is that better?
No problem. Yeah, that makes more sense and that is true. An example, methanol reducing IATs in the charge pipe has just as much of an effect on ignition advance as actually injecting ethanol into the chamber.

Our platforms have horrible, horrible issues with heat soak so even in cold climates it's damn near unavoidable to have 100+ IATs during heavy pulls/hard driving and ethanol will still have its benefits.

There's also the fact that when tuning a Type R, it's very difficult to tune it around the idea that 'this customer lives in a cold climate' successfully. We can't set ignition based on intake temps (yet) like you could with other Honda applications. You can use the way the ECU balances air charge and ignition for some advanced trickery to use what you've got when you've got it, but it's extremely difficult to get right and you're better off just tuning for potentially hot climates.
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In the winter time they add butane to the gas and increases the fuels likelihood to knock, all winter I had to deal with making sure I wasn't getting knock retard and I even had to resort to lowering ignition tables below to what basemaps had. It was a huge pain in the ass. This winter with flex should be better.
 

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In the winter time they add butane to the gas and increases the fuels likelihood to knock, all winter I had to deal with making sure I wasn't getting knock retard and I even had to resort to lowering ignition tables below to what basemaps had. It was a huge pain in the ass. This winter with flex should be better.
pretty sure its just more gasoline they put in there to help the engine start.. hense the lower ethanol content. Could be wrong, dont actually know.
 

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pretty sure its just more gasoline they put in there to help the engine start.. hense the lower ethanol content. Could be wrong, dont actually know.
Depends where you live but on the east coast the E85 can turn into E70. Sometimes even E50.
Dinosaur gasoline goes to almost no ethanol.

In the winter time they add butane to the gas and increases the fuels likelihood to knock, all winter I had to deal with making sure I wasn't getting knock retard and I even had to resort to lowering ignition tables below to what basemaps had. It was a huge pain in the ass. This winter with flex should be better.
Since ethanol has such poor atomization at low temperatures, they may put up to 7.5% butane in winter E85. Sorry, you may still get some knock retard.
 

AdamD19DFK8

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Honda Civic 10th gen should i hold off on hondata fuel system IMG_20201008_053806


This is the biggest drawback to running flex. On 93 even if I drive it really hard or sit and idle some it'll still be 18mpg lol.

Last night I got some awesome driving in with a ton of great pulls. Starting in 4th gear it did a 62-124 in 9 seconds flat. Before this the best I ever saw was 10 seconds. The gearing in this car isn't really ideal for that kind of benchmark but it's still impressive.

80-140 pull it managed it under 11 seconds.

This thing flys. I've still gotta dial in my tune, i still have room for more timing. Ignition advance will sit at 24 from after 6k to the top. The best I'd ever seen consistently on 93 was 17
 


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IMG_20201008_053806.jpg


This is the biggest drawback to running flex. On 93 even if I drive it really hard or sit and idle some it'll still be 18mpg lol.

Last night I got some awesome driving in with a ton of great pulls. Starting in 4th gear it did a 62-124 in 9 seconds flat. Before this the best I ever saw was 10 seconds. The gearing in this car isn't really ideal for that kind of benchmark but it's still impressive.

80-140 pull it managed it under 11 seconds.

This thing flys. I've still gotta dial in my tune, i still have room for more timing. Ignition advance will sit at 24 from after 6k to the top. The best I'd ever seen consistently on 93 was 17
Would love to see an in car dash view of your acceleration!
 

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This is 100% false.

You use E45 for the stock turbo and with the fuel system it most certainly increases power and torque all throughout the powerband. You won't get over 400ft/lbs on the stock fuel system.

I just installed my flex fuel kit and ran e35 and e45 and I can tell a big difference from running pump gas and especially compared to the stock setup.

Full... Torque.... Everywhere
Did you disable EGT?
 

GotCTR?

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This is the biggest drawback to running flex. On 93 even if I drive it really hard or sit and idle some it'll still be 18mpg lol.

Last night I got some awesome driving in with a ton of great pulls. Starting in 4th gear it did a 62-124 in 9 seconds flat. Before this the best I ever saw was 10 seconds. The gearing in this car isn't really ideal for that kind of benchmark but it's still impressive.

80-140 pull it managed it under 11 seconds.

This thing flys. I've still gotta dial in my tune, i still have room for more timing. Ignition advance will sit at 24 from after 6k to the top. The best I'd ever seen consistently on 93 was 17
I get about 24-26MPG combined and almost 30 on the highway with just using a hondata e30 tune map,
Your mpg looks very bad
 

kefi

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I get about 24-26MPG combined and almost 30 on the highway with just using a hondata e30 tune map,
Your mpg looks very bad
MPG is almost entirely about how you drive it. I get 16-18mpg consistently regardless of fuel or fueling parameters unless I'm driving at a consistent speed, and then I'll get 24 or so.
 

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In the winter time they add butane to the gas and increases the fuels likelihood to knock, all winter I had to deal with making sure I wasn't getting knock retard and I even had to resort to lowering ignition tables below to what basemaps had. It was a huge pain in the ass. This winter with flex should be better.
I experienced the same last winter. Had to get the car completely retuned. Same power at less boost and less timing. Now I tuned in summer with wmi. Let see what happens when winter blend gas hits. Hopefully I can go though it no problem.
 


kefi

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I experienced the same last winter. Had to get the car completely retuned. Same power at less boost and less timing. Now I tuned in summer with wmi. Let see what happens when winter blend gas hits. Hopefully I can go though it no problem.
This right here is exactly why I teach everyone I can how to datalog and offer free revisions on my tunes. These things need minor adjustments time to time because of how dependent they are on octane level.
 

AdamD19DFK8

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I get about 24-26MPG combined and almost 30 on the highway with just using a hondata e30 tune map,
Your mpg looks very bad
Yeah but all of those miles from that tank were me data logging and testing, so I was flooring it every chance I have. So damn addicting

Did you disable EGT?
I do with flex fuel. On pump gas it increases IAT way too much therefore lowering ignition etc. On flex it's not as bad

Would love to see an in car dash view of your acceleration!
Haha I need to get another camera in order to properly depict speed. The field of view on my dashcam is too wide so it doesn't look as fast as I'm actually going

https://youtube.com/adamd19d

I've got a bunch of dashcam footage on my YouTube page
 

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This right here is exactly why I teach everyone I can how to datalog and offer free revisions on my tunes. These things need minor adjustments time to time because of how dependent they are on octane level.
this!!
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