Should I buy a Civic

[Rooster Pew Pew]

Hey all, I am replacing my 2006 Corolla S I've had for the last 12 years. I'm strongly considering the Civic Si but the premium fuel is a turn off so maybe EX-T i just read about in another post or the Sport hatch circa 2018. Also in consideration is Mazda3, another corolla (2019 or newer but not real thrilled with it. was perfectly happy with my old '06). There is a Subaru WRX in town that i will test drive when dealer is ready but its not a strong contender as its overkill for me. I'm 42 with my 5th kid on the way, I park at the airport half the month. I run errands and take the boys to baseball. I don't race. But i want to keep in a manual transmission as i enjoy being connected to the car that way. Mechanical reliability is more important to me than a fine tuned IRS. Would love to be under $20k but i can go higher for the right car. All these manual T's are hard to find anyway so I'll get what I can. I'd love to hear thoughts if anyone has had experience with these other cars as well as Info on what years are the favorites for the Civic. With my Odyssey the last year of a generation was generally the best as the next gen showed up with lots of new problems. I would assume that's true for Civic as well. I appreciate the input.

Sponsored

 

[annievvv]

I'm 42 with my 5th kid on the way, I park at the airport half the month. I run errands and take the boys to baseball.

Sounds like you should be buying a mini van

 

[sbace_hamb]

From your description, the Si might even be a little more than you're looking for. I don't think you'll go wrong for your needs with any of those options, the new Mazda's have been really nice. If you can find a lower trim Civic in the manual configuration, that'll fill your checklist as well without all the sporty bells and whistles the Si adds.

 

[Civic Disobedience]

Nick, I concur to some extent with @sbace_hamb about an Si possibly being overkill for you, but it might be your easiest route to finding a manual. Premium fuel is recommended, not required with the Si. Premium provides a modest horsepower bump, though. That might not be what you're looking for, but I suspect you'd feel different about it after a few boosts at WOT. All Hondas with the 1.5 turbo recommend premium, I believe.

I was lucky to find my 2017 Sport hatch (FK7) with a manual in 2018 with only 10k miles on it. In fact, the 6MT is why it had been sitting in CarMax's showroom floor for weeks. The sales guy said people would see the color and the styling, and they'd be intrigued until they saw the stick in the center console. Their loss, my gain. As Car and Driver stated when they put the 10th gen on their 10Best list in 2019, "the Sport hatchback is. . .as entertaining as a bathtub full of otters." Here's their review from 2017: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15096312/2017-honda-civic-hatchback-15t-manual-test-review/

Coming from a 2006 Corolla S to a 2017-2022 10th gen Civic--especially one with a 1.5T--is a HUGE upgrade. Even my daughter's 2023 Civic Sport with the 2.0 NA and an automatic is very nice to drive, so I imagine the older versions of that chassis and powertrain are solid.

My Civic replaced a 2009 Honda Fit Sport 5MT, a car I loved dearly, especially because I could drive it at 8 or 9/10ths on public streets without getting into trouble. As I immediately learned, compared to a Fit Sport, a bone stock FK7 is a MASSIVE upgrade. I thought I'd died and woke up in an Audi. And while I'd much rather have a Honda than an Audi, I think you see my point.

Six years later, I love my FK7 even more. My daily commute, which is thankfully in moderate traffic (because Omaha), is usually a joy. The modifications have a lot to do with that, as I've transformed it into a proper hot hatch--nearly an SI without the LSD (and Si insurance rates). I realize you're not looking to build anything, but the entire 10th gen lineup (including 2.0) provides an open blueprint for improvements.

Based on what you shared, I think you're right about a WRX being a little too much (plus premium fuel and WRX insurance rates). An Si might be a little much as well. They may be hen's teeth, especially examples that haven't been "riced out," but if you can find a 6MT hatch or sedan, especially with the 1.5T, I think you'll be very happy.

You say you're not interested in racing (neither am I) or hooning around. But lively driving has never been an option with your 9th gen Corolla. Subsequent versions of the Corolla are dead reliable but utterly without spirit. The Mazda3 is better, but not quite there. The Civic is going to be your sweet spot of reliability and fun to drive.

I think you're sublimating your inner driver. You've clearly done some research--more than 90% of people buying cars. You're asking for input from weirdos on an online enthusiast owners group. If you can find an unmodified FK7 or even a sedan with a manual, you'll leave the door open to exploring your options down the road. I doubt you'll regret it.

 

[arpypat]

Sounds like you should be buying a mini van

or an actual van :

 

[Rooster Pew Pew]

Sounds like you should be buying a mini van

We have a 2016 odyssey as the family hauler. This is my airport car/dd and maybe the teens will drive it if they learn stick.

 

[Rooster Pew Pew]

or an actual van :

Lol, thought about it. We bought the 16 odyssey from my dad last fall. then found out we were preggo. Van almost got totaled a couple weeks ago (still in the shop for at least another week). For a minute i hoped it was as I'm not sure the mini will make a good family hauler. But i don't want a 12 or 15 pax van to be my wife's DD. better to rent for a trip or just take two cars if we have to.

 

[Rooster Pew Pew]

From your description, the Si might even be a little more than you're looking for.

You are probably right. I do like some of the cosmetic improvements over base models but most performance upgrades are lost on me. Last two cars were this 06 Corolla S and before that an 02 Impala LS Sport. Neither had any performance improvements over the base models. Just features and looked better. I'm still studying the trim differences and some things on the Si appeal but its luxury. The hatch on the sport could be nice loading the baseball bags but I've managed with the corolla with just a little anxiety watching bats swing into the trunk off the kids shoulders. It may just come down to what car i can find within 500 miles of me. But trying to focus the search as much as i can to at least the right generation if not specific years and have a solid understanding of what to expect/desire out of different trims before i drive all over the state to see something.

 

[Rooster Pew Pew]

Nick, I concur to some extent with @sbace_hamb about an Si possibly being overkill for you, but it might be your easiest route to finding a manual. Premium fuel is recommended, not required with the Si. Premium provides a modest horsepower bump, though. That might not be what you're looking for, but I suspect you'd feel different about it after a few boosts at WOT. All Hondas with the 1.5 turbo recommend premium, I believe.

I was lucky to find my 2017 Sport hatch (FK7) with a manual in 2018 with only 10k miles on it. In fact, the 6MT is why it had been sitting in CarMax's showroom floor for weeks. The sales guy said people would see the color and the styling, and they'd be intrigued until they saw the stick in the center console. Their loss, my gain. As Car and Driver stated when they put the 10th gen on their 10Best list in 2019, "the Sport hatchback is. . .as entertaining as a bathtub full of otters." Here's their review from 2017: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15096312/2017-honda-civic-hatchback-15t-manual-test-review/

Coming from a 2006 Corolla S to a 2017-2022 10th gen Civic--especially one with a 1.5T--is a HUGE upgrade. Even my daughter's 2023 Civic Sport with the 2.0 NA and an automatic is very nice to drive, so I imagine the older versions of that chassis and powertrain are solid.

My Civic replaced a 2009 Honda Fit Sport 5MT, a car I loved dearly, especially because I could drive it at 8 or 9/10ths on public streets without getting into trouble. As I immediately learned, compared to a Fit Sport, a bone stock FK7 is a MASSIVE upgrade. I thought I'd died and woke up in an Audi. And while I'd much rather have a Honda than an Audi, I think you see my point.

Six years later, I love my FK7 even more. My daily commute, which is thankfully in moderate traffic (because Omaha), is usually a joy. The modifications have a lot to do with that, as I've transformed it into a proper hot hatch--nearly an SI without the LSD (and Si insurance rates). I realize you're not looking to build anything, but the entire 10th gen lineup (including 2.0) provides an open blueprint for improvements.

Based on what you shared, I think you're right about a WRX being a little too much (plus premium fuel and WRX insurance rates). An Si might be a little much as well. They may be hen's teeth, especially examples that haven't been "riced out," but if you can find a 6MT hatch or sedan, especially with the 1.5T, I think you'll be very happy.

You say you're not interested in racing (neither am I) or hooning around. But lively driving has never been an option with your 9th gen Corolla. Subsequent versions of the Corolla are dead reliable but utterly without spirit. The Mazda3 is better, but not quite there. The Civic is going to be your sweet spot of reliability and fun to drive.

I think you're sublimating your inner driver. You've clearly done some research--more than 90% of people buying cars. You're asking for input from weirdos on an online enthusiast owners group. If you can find an unmodified FK7 or even a sedan with a manual, you'll leave the door open to exploring your options down the road. I doubt you'll regret it.

"Analysis Paralysis" Should be my middle name. I signed up on 4 forums yesterday to pick peoples brains. But i like to run cars into the ground so its sort of a marriage. Funny thing is i'm pretty easy to please because I'm not really a car guy. I was perfectly happy with that corolla. It never let me down except when the brakes locked up last week. Never had to fix it either in 12 years. The car lacked spirit but was better than stock and has a stick. Good gas mileage and just enough hauling capacity. But i do my research and maybe that has something to do with my satisfaction with the cars I buy. I'm curious about the extra road noise of a hatch but has some appeal. May very well come down to what I can find. And likely i can't go wrong with Civic or 3. The WRX made the list but its this point in life maybe i deserve better/more fun. Same with the Si. But i feel guilty parking those at the airport half the month. Now my wife didn't so much like the little corolla and she doesn't like the rental corolla i'm in. So I'm starting to wonder if CX5 or accord or forester should be on the list with the teen drivers and longer leg kids.

 

[dt10g]

I had put this Google Sheet together earlier,
and lists all the 10th gen Manual options in the US and Canada

The forum insists on embedding it, so here is the uRL you can assemble

https://
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/
1bEEgRD--Mq9IhHcQ9bbLwryd9nG_f2JVl0plFtEzNvM/edit?usp=sharing



You might also consider a 2016-2020 LX sedan or a 2019-2020 Sport sedan
as I think you know, those have the K20C2 2.0L non-turbo engine

You can also get the Coupe, but I think we are talking sedans here.

To lookup specs just Google the following, adjust to suit
you can then see exactly what feature one trim has, vs. another

e.g.
honda civic sedan specifications site:hondanews.com 2019

Example: 2019 sedan specifications

https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-a...7628-2019-civic-sedan-specifications-features

In the USA, I would probably suggest looking at the Sport trim if you are considering a 2.0

this is because the US-market LX is more stripped down in Infotainment, and some other niceties
and in the US-market, the Sport, is available with Manual... and also has aftermarket exhaust options without going custom. If you do choose an US market LX, then some people swap in the Joying third-party headunit...

If you were in Canada, it would be a different story on that LX vs Sport trims....
our LX is much more up-market and our Sport doesn't come in manual lol wtf

Just a note that LX and Sport in the HATCHBACKS is different, they are all 1.5T engines

Why consider a 2.0L model ?

0. Probably a little cheaper (vs Si or EX-T), and so probably cheaper to insure too
1. They are still very fun to drive with a manual, if you don't race people on the daily
2. They are reliable AF, even on 87 octane, great mileage
3. You can modify them up pretty well with available parts in the aftermarket
It's not going to give you the same Juice as the Turbos as long as you are cool with that.
One of the best upgrades is the full Acuity shifter, if you love manual trans, you'd love that...
4. If there is some Honda feature that is only available in the "higher" trims then you can often just add that with the OEM Honda parts... e.g. I added the leather trims, the soft close console latch, European adjustable headrests, many things are easily swapped - not everything, but we can advise if you have something specific in mind

Whatever you choose, should be great, just wanted to add this consideration
cheers

 

[DadBodMod17]

I love my 10th gen Si but wouldn't really be able to recommend a used 10th gen to anyone due to the AC issues.. especially if it's a daily driver...

 

[sbace_hamb]

It never let me down except when the brakes locked up last week. Never had to fix it either in 12 years.

One thing to be VERY aware of with this generation is that it is almost a guarantee that you will experience an issue with your A/C at some point during ownership. Some people get lucky, but it's bad enough that Honda has a 10 year/unlimited mile extended warranty covering the compressor shaft seal. If your leak is anywhere else in the system, they will not accept liability. It's a fairly rampant issue that likely won't see any more effort put into resolving it than that, as they've moved healthily into the 11th generation by this point. By no means is it unfixable, I personally got away with simply recharging refrigerant, but it is something that stands contrast to Honda's usual reputation.

 

[Cornercarver]

Having owned a '17 SI from new for 2 .5 years and 52,000 miles -was commuting a lot - I have to say it was a great daily. Very good gas mileage, great to drive, amazing trunk, and no issues with it.
If you can find a good one for your budget, probably can't go wrong with a 10th gen SI.
Only the chance to trade for a low mileage Type R wooed me away.

 

[Rooster Pew Pew]

Why consider a 2.0L model ?

0. Probably a little cheaper, and so probably cheaper to insure too
1. They are still very fun to drive with a manual, if you don't race people on the daily
2. They are reliable AF, even on 87 octane, great mileage
3. You can modify them up pretty well with available parts in the aftermarket
It's not going to give you the same Juice as the Turbos as long as you are cool with that.
One of the best upgrades is the full Acuity shifter, if you love manual trans, you'd love that...
4. If there is some Honda feature that is only available in the "higher" trims then you can often just add that with the OEM Honda parts... e.g. I added the leather trims, the soft close console latch, European adjustable headrests, many things are easily swapped - not everything, but we can advise if you have something specific in mind

Whatever you choose, should be great, just wanted to add this consideration
cheers

Bro, awesome info. I test drove a '17 Si today. I have to admit i was hoping to enjoy it more. Don't get me wrong, nice car but something about my corolla just made me feel like i was wearing it. Maybe i'm just so used to it. It had 128k miles and they price is 19k. It was sitting next to an EX-L from '18. It was an automatic so i didn't drive it but the interior feels somewhat more appropriate although leather may not be the best idea. not a deal breaker. I'm assuming the interior of the EX-T is the same just different engine? Still have not been able to touch a Mazda3. I may have to stalk parking lots. lol. I'll comb over this spreadsheet and see what i learn. Oh, yeah 4 door is a must with all these kids.

 

[dt10g]

I'm assuming the interior of the EX-T is the same just different engine?

Engine:
the Si just has slightly beefier bits iirc to get the slightly upgraded horsepower.
But fundamentally it is the same 1.5T engine in the two

Interior differences between a USA (2017) Si and EX-T should come down to...

Seats: the EX-T has "normal" looking seats, the Si ones are the sporty bucket ones you sat in today
Sport Pedals ... Si has aluminum metal covers on the pedals...
Si has aluminum shift knob, the EX-T sounds like plastic in the specs
Si has leather steering wheel, the EX-T sounds like plastic ...
Si has other subtle trim differences like some fabric, red stitching and whatnot on the panels and interior trim
Si has 10 speaker sound system (450w with Sub) whereas EX-T has the 180w 8-speaker system

You can add almost any of the Si stuff to other trims, some easier than others
like getting an upgraded shift knob is trivial, we have whole threads on the options lol
The sport pedal covers are just riveted on there, and can fit any Civic. Steering wheel options too.

Guys can correct me or add anything particularly relevant that I may have missed.

If you meant the
Interior differences between a USA (2017) EX-L and EX-T should come down to...

Those two have identical engines
in 2017 at least

EX = base 2.0
EX-T = turbo 1.5T
EX-L = turbo 1.5T + Leather

So the only Interior differences between EX-T and EX-L are these on the EX-L

Automatic-Dimming Rearview Mirror (vs. not)​	​	​	​	•​	•​
Leather-Wrapped Steering Wheel (vs. plastic)​	​	​	​	•​	•​
Leather-Wrapped Shift Knob (vs. plastic)​

Driver's Seat with 8-Way Power Adjustment (vs. Manual adjust)​	​	​	​	•​	•​
Leather-Trimmed Seats (vs. Cloth only)​	​	​	​	•​	•​

The Cloth seats in the Civics is fine. I prefer it...
The Cloth TRIM in the Civics is kind of cheap and can get gross (e.g. armrests)
but you can swap to the Leather ones quite easily and then problem solved.

I think there might have been a Navigation option in the EX-L ... but these days why would you bother when you have Android Auto / CarPlay onboard

I'm genuinely surprised that Honda even offered two trims EX-T and EX-L given the lack of differences ... but who knows with Marketing people. US market is probably large enough to support more options than up here.

Sponsored