Should Honda have kept VTEC engines in Civics or is the 1.5T a welcome change?

[fenix-silver]

uhhh, ok. again, what proof do you have that this won't be the case w/ these engines?

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[Shred]

Every owner accepts that it's a slow car. It's not a bad car, it's a fun affordable sports car that is really connected to the road in a way most cars today, even cars like a Type R or M2 Competition, simply aren't. It does the experience very well. Hard to call that a race car though, or imply that you passing him makes your car a racing machine.

You can compare some lap times here, the FRS/86 both lap faster than the 2016 Civic which was your 2.0.

 

[charleswrivers]

K20C2 redline is 6700. L15B7 redline is 6500. I wouldn't call <7000 RPM "high revving" and that 200 RPM delta means absolutely nothing.

Yeah. The Z7s went to 7000 and even then I felt like the high revving days were behind us and that engine had very little character compared to my old A2, though it had oodles more torque in the midrange but a less dramatic crossover point. We were reflashing the A2s and touching 8600 RPM and that little motor was a screamer after it’s cross-over in comparison. That last couple thousand RPM is where all fun was. Big reason why I got rid of the ‘15. It just didn’t have... “it”... whatever “it” is.

 

[Shred]

From your earlier post: " My point is, K20c2 is the real racing engine...u guys thinking that 1.5T is going to be the aftermarket choice are destined for a reality check. With extreme mileage the small Turbos are going to lose their mojo while the 2.0na is in its element. " But whatever, glad you like your car.

 

[The Vyzitor]

I'll just add... I think the L15B7 is maybe more of a welcome change on the non-Si cars and a "good enough" change on the Si that was certainly a compromise engine and many would have preferred a K20C4 or something similar for more of a R-lite Si. It's worlds better than the outgoing R18 for the non-Sis. It matches the performance of the outgoing K24Z7 with a bit different power delivery... has functionally a 10% economy bump if you compare them on Fuelly… and the hypermilers seem to be able to stretch that a lot further... and for minimal money, you can reflash it and snag 50 whp and be in the mid-200 whp range whereas the K24Z7 for double the money for a bellmouth DP, intake and reflash would get you around 200 whp and you were pretty well stuck there until you added a turbo/SC for thousands. If we'd gotten the ILX engine which is a DI version of the gen 9 engine... I doubt we'd have much more headroom. That 8 speed DCT would have made a substantial difference though... even though manual junkies would have passed on it.

And as this is turning into a L15B7 vs K20C2... I'll say as I've said before... the K20C2 is a good motor... and yes, it has VTEC, but it is not a performance variant of the K-series. I would not lump it into the same category as a K24Z7 or K20A2/Z1/Z3. With a reflash and bolt ons… they'd be hard pressed to even match the 165-180 whp range those engines made stock. They dyno down in the 130-ish/100-ish range. Their also don't have exhaust side VTEC... so, like the K24Z7... well... it's just not the same. I didn't think the Z7 had much personality compared to the older engines. I never had a B-series car and wish I had... just for the experience.

Agreed 100%. Not to exaggerate too much, but the 1.5 engine in this Civic sort of renewed my interest in cars.

Long story shorter, 4 years ago I had to make some adult decisions to reduce financial strain on my relationship since we were looking to buy a new house in the near future, and give up my toys. i had already sold my Saleen, and my 1LE Camaro was killing me in gas driving to work 6 days a week. So it had to go, and I leased a 2016 LX. I had resigned myself to just driving an economy car, and the LX got me from A to B and got good gas mileage. It was an alright car. And it definitely made me want another Civic when the lease was over.

Fast forward 3 years. I’m shopping for a replacement for the LX, looking at a Fit Sport or Civic Sport hatch... for no other reason than good looks and hatchback form factor. No interest in engine or power, as I figured they’re all pretty much the same until you get up to the Si Or Type R. Figured the Sport hatch would just drive like a cool looking LX, but a hatchback. I knew nothing of the 1.5 or it’s potential.

Boy was I wrong. The engine has so much more power all over the rev range, AND gets better gas mileage. Between that and the better handling, I started to get that familiar “itch” of wanting to know and do more with the platform. Which led me to a few FB groups and here to CivicX. and so far it’s been a win-win, because the wife doesn’t mind me modding a Civic, versus my old cars.

the LX engine was alright for what it is. An economic motor with a little pep. I never got the feeling of an old GSR B-series or Type-S or SI K20. It felt like enough to get me where I needed to go.

 

[charleswrivers]

"It" is the reason I'll probably sell my CTR someday and why I'll have to buy a crane to lower me into my S2000 in 2060. The engine feels like it's about to explode, because any other engine would have exploded. It feels like you should shift, but you haven't hit the powerband yet. A pushrod V8 redlines where my S2000 starts. It's stupid as hell and normies hate it, but there's nothing else like it.

My cousin has had an early F20C S2000 for a number of years that I’ve spent a bit of time in (not enough!). That car definitely has “it”. Even in a future where everyone is driving around in 0-60 in 1 second electric flying cars... that thing will always have “it”.

 

[SixSpeeder]

"It" is the reason I'll probably sell my CTR someday and why I'll have to buy a crane to lower me into my S2000 in 2060. The engine feels like it's about to explode, because any other engine would have exploded. It feels like you should shift, but you haven't hit the powerband yet. A pushrod V8 redlines where my S2000 starts. It's stupid as hell and normies hate it, but there's nothing else like it.

A pushrod V8 also makes more torque than the s2000 with the engine turned off, but I get what you're saying.

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