Should Honda have kept VTEC engines in Civics or is the 1.5T a welcome change?

[RehabJP]

I mean I guess tuners have been throwing blowers on Honda engines long before they came out with the 1.5T but to have a factory fresh Civic that is not NA with VTEC was strange. IDK, I think VTEC engines were for sure more reliable the tech was tried and tested for decades but the turbo is fun and a lot more you can play with when tuning out of the box without having to spend a bucket of money modding the engine first. The little quirks like the engine running rich and the weird phantom misfires you get are not as big a deal as I thought they were at first and I do like hearing that turbo spool up when I am pulling gears on TSP Map 2 in sport mode. Part of me though still misses the old VTEC engines. Low end torque sucked but man get up into that band and that pin locked into the cam lobe and VTEC engaged that was a lot of fun too.

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[gtman]

I hear ya. I owned a couple Hondas (CRX, Civic) and an Integra LS back in the day. These turbos have a different feel, no doubt. But, there's a lot to be said for this newer non-VTEC iteration.

I means yeah, wringing out a car with a lower power engine to get the most of it is fun. But the Honda of old low end was pretty weak.

With these turbos, you kind of get the best of both worlds, especially tuned. With a bunch of low end torque you don't have to put your foot into it as much around town meaning better mpgs. Then when you get on it, after about 4,000 rpm it almost feels like a VTEC crossover in a way. On my TSP tune, 4,000 rpm basically feels like an on/off switch.

 

[fenix-silver]

I've always felt like high-strung NA engines where you need to wring the snot out of them all the time have a place on the track, but for a daily driver leave a bit to be desired. I'd love to get a ride in a CTR at some point to see how the VTEC feels paired w/ the turbo. Turbos at this point have been pretty much perfected, and while pretty new for Honda in their production cars, I'm sure they've had plenty of time to put together a reliable system. It's funny for me when I think that I've only owned turbocharged cars and never had an issue with the turbo components themselves, apart from a plastic turbo inlet that split. '97 Saab 900 CSE, '04 WRX, '19 Si.

 

[hobby-man]

I think from what I've read there isn't a whole lot of need for VTEC and a turbo unless you're trying to wring everything you can out of the motor. With forced induction, the variable lift part of VTEC doesn't become nearly as important as it is in naturally aspirated engines. These engines still have VTC (variable timing control) which affects how long the valves are open, but not how far they lift. The turbo blasting more air into the cylinder takes over a lot of that responsibility.

 

[fenix-silver]

I think from what I've read there isn't a whole lot of need for VTEC and a turbo unless you're trying to wring everything you can out of the motor. With forced induction, the variable lift part of VTEC doesn't become nearly as important as it is in naturally aspirated engines. These engines still have VTC (variable timing control) which affects how long the valves are open, but not how far they lift. The turbo blasting more air into the cylinder takes over a lot of that responsibility.

Seems like variable lift on the exhaust side could still be beneficial, although maybe since the turbo is creating backpressure, it wouldn't provide much of a benefit anyways. Probably a case of diminishing returns.

 

[hobby-man]

Seems like variable lift on the exhaust side could still be beneficial, although maybe since the turbo is creating backpressure, it wouldn't provide much of a benefit anyways. Probably a case of diminishing returns.

Probably part of the logic that went into getting the power they did from the K20 in the Type R. Then just detuned it for the AccordX rather than coming up with yet another system. The Accord probably would have been fine with just the extra .5L of displacement and the bigger turbo even with VTC only.

 

[vtecr]

I'm around long enough to remember when people thought the K-series was a step away from the old pure fan-favourite Honda's of the B-Series era but now everyone is transplanting K-series into oldskool Honda's too. I think we'll feel the same about the new L-Series in time.

 

[RehabJP]

I'm around long enough to remember when people thought the K-series was a step away from the old pure fan-favourite Honda's of the B-Series era but now everyone is transplanting K-series into oldskool Honda's too. I think we'll feel the same about the new L-Series in time.

K swapping is very trendy now and yea your probably right in 5-10 years everyone will be L swapping and by then they will have even more bolt on turbos and bolt parts to pull out every ounce of power they can muster. The 1.5Ts are already stupid cheap. You can pick one up almost brand new for less than a grand but I am sure when it does become trendy to swap them in the price will go up. Maybe I should pick a few up now.


Before I bought my new Si I was considering either getting a used Civic and K swapping it but I really do not have a place right now where I could store and work on a car to that extent. Might have been cool though. Maybe one day.

 

[The Vyzitor]

from everything I’ve seen Honda say, the 1.5 VTEC Turbo engine (which is what Honda calls it globally) is an evolution of VTEC. as said above, lift isn’t as important with forced induction, and the Type R keeping lift on the exhaust cam was to aid in spooling the turbo, wasn‘t it?

 

[fenix-silver]

from everything I’ve seen Honda say, the 1.5 VTEC Turbo engine (which is what Honda calls it globally) is an evolution of VTEC. as said above, lift isn’t as important with forced induction, and the Type R keeping lift on the exhaust cam was to aid in spooling the turbo, wasn‘t it?

Unfortunately the "VTEC Turbo" badging on Civics in some markets is complete marketing BS. I really wouldn't call it an evolution of VTEC when the engine has no variable lift present.

 

[The Vyzitor]

Unfortunately the "VTEC Turbo" badging on Civics in some markets is complete marketing BS. I really wouldn't call it an evolution of VTEC when the engine has no variable lift present.

but as everyone has said, variable lift is no longer as beneficial as it was when these motors were naturally aspirated. Even the Type R forgoes lift on the intake cam, because the turbo is stuffing boost in to the cylinders, and lift on the exhaust is just to aid in turbo spool.

https://global.honda/innovation/technology/automobile/Vtec-turbo-picturebook.html

 

[charleswrivers]

On the flip side... VTEC was also good at lowering lift on the low end to keep velocity up so the car wasn’t a complete dog in the low/midrange. When you have a tiny turbo spool immediately to slam a bunch of air up to the valves and keep velocity up... going low lift probably isn’t as necessary. Plus you’ve got heads that are more geared around making tumble more... “tumbly” than outright flow for DI. Honda had ditched exhaust side VTEC already on the K24Z7 last gen. Intake-side I suppose was made unneeded with the turbo.

I don’t know what our cams are but they could be as much as a high-all-the-time or medium rather than necessarily low lift. It’s be interesting to know. I don’t recall there being cams in the aftermarket for our cars... but there may well be some out there. I thought someone had looked into doing them and the gains weren’t there so they weren’t very marketable. That was a long time ago though and would be less applicable now that we’ve got aftermarket turbos starting to come out our ears.

 

[fenix-silver]

but as everyone has said, variable lift is no longer as beneficial as it was when these motors were naturally aspirated. Even the Type R forgoes lift on the intake cam, because the turbo is stuffing boost in to the cylinders, and lift on the exhaust is just to aid in turbo spool.

https://global.honda/innovation/technology/automobile/Vtec-turbo-picturebook.html

I wasn't saying that it was, just that the VTEC marking is now BS on the 1.5T, so they should just stop using it altogether. I realize Honda is trying to take advantage of their long and storied history of VTEC, but if you are only using the word for marketing purposes at this point, that's kind of pathetic.

 

[fenix-silver]

I don’t know what our cams are but they could be as much as a high-all-the-time or medium rather than necessarily low lift. It’s be interesting to know. I don’t recall there being cams in the aftermarket for our cars... but there may well be some out there. I thought someone had looked into doing them and the gains weren’t there so they weren’t very marketable. That was a long time ago though and would be less applicable now that we’ve got aftermarket turbos starting to come out our ears.

Similar to the Subaru EJ turbos, you really never heard of people camming their motors. Really wasn't necessary unless you were going for huge power w/ a huge turbo, and even then I don't recall much discussion on doing so.

 

[Gruber]

NA VTEC engines with steep power curves were great for Honda. The commuters who never ever got their VTEC to kick in had an economical car, while enthusiast kids for same price were excited by the high rpm max power numbers in the spec sheets.

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