Shifting at low RPM - help?

Zeffy94

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I’ve basically finally gotten the hang of smooth upshifting, only took about 13 months (yay!), but one thing I cannot figure out for the life of me is upshifting at low RPM (less than 2.5k).

In the morning, the transmission is usually cold and I don’t like to rev where I normally rev to (around 4K) so I try and shift earlier while the fluid is warming up. Problem is, no matter what I do, I always get a pronounced jerk the moment my clutch is released. Even holding the clutch at the bite point I can feel it. It’s especially really bad when I go to 2nd gear.

When I shift at my normal RPM, I usually hold the clutch in after changing to the next gear for a brief moment before letting it out. This gives me a smooth shift. At low RPM this doesn’t seem to work. Letting out the clutch directly after selecting the next gear doesn’t seem to work either. I don’t know if I need to add gas (almost like rev matching) or if I’m just doing something wrong.

Also, in comfort mode the jerk is less pronounced at low RPM but I can still feel it. I don’t know if comfort mode does something that makes the engagement smoother, but I always thought I shifted much smoother when comfort mode.
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Do you let the car warm up before going usually?

Either way, sounds like you are just shifting too early to me. I'd say try to take it past at least 3k.
 

boosted180sx

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In the morning, the transmission is usually cold and I don’t like to rev where I normally rev to (around 4K) so I try and shift earlier while the fluid is warming up. Problem is, no matter what I do, I always get a pronounced jerk the moment my clutch is released. Even holding the clutch at the bite point I can feel it. It’s especially really bad when I go to 2nd gear.

When I shift at my normal RPM, I usually hold the clutch in after changing to the next gear for a brief moment before letting it out. This gives me a smooth shift. At low RPM this doesn’t seem to work. Letting out the clutch directly after selecting the next gear doesn’t seem to work either. I don’t know if I need to add gas (almost like rev matching) or if I’m just doing something wrong.

Also, in comfort mode the jerk is less pronounced at low RPM but I can still feel it. I don’t know if comfort mode does something that makes the engagement smoother, but I always thought I shifted much smoother when comfort mode.
when the engine is cold, the rpms usually tends to drop much faster than if it was warm also so you would have to shift and engage the next gear faster than you would if the engine was warm. I can bet its the rpm dropping past what it would be in the next gear and you clutching out is having to bring the rpm back up.

also the jerk may be less pronounced in comfort mode because the throttle isn't as sensitive as sport or +R so you have less of the jerkiness from abrupt throttle inputs.
 
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Zeffy94

Zeffy94

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when the engine is cold, the rpms usually tends to drop much faster than if it was warm also so you would have to shift and engage the next gear faster than you would if the engine was warm. I can bet its the rpm dropping past what it would be in the next gear and you clutching out is having to bring the rpm back up.

also the jerk may be less pronounced in comfort mode because the throttle isn't as sensitive as sport or +R so you have less of the jerkiness from abrupt throttle inputs.
I didn’t know the revs dropped faster when it’s cold. I do believe it could be the revs dropping below where they should be.

Do you let the car warm up before going usually?

Either way, sounds like you are just shifting too early to me. I'd say try to take it past at least 3k.
I give it about a minute or two before I start driving , however that doesn’t really warm up the transmission fluid. Even letting it sit for a few minutes in the winter because of frost on the windows it took some driving before the shifts got smoother.

I do note that when the trans is warm I don’t get as bad of a jolt when shifting at low RPMs but I do still get one.
 

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Here's how I do it... Comfort mode (trying to always achieve 28.8+ MPG on Fuelly for daily duties), cold morning, shift as low as frigin possible but slip the clutch more while shifting at low RPMs. Treat it more as a seesaw than doing it as an on / off clutch engagement. It reduces the jerky motion and you will find the sweet spot of gas pedal to clutch pedal with this car. Putting it in R more IMO makes this much more difficult due to the sensitivity level being turned up.
 


redwing497

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I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'm having the opposite issue. This is my first turbo car with a manual transmission. I find that, when shifting near redline, if I'm deliberate with my shifts, I'm dropping out of boost and have to wait for the turbo to spool again in the next gear. What's the solution? Just shift faster and get back on the gas ASAP?
 

CTtypeR

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Add a tiny, tiny amount of throttle when you're almost off the clutch.
 

CTtypeR

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I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'm having the opposite issue. This is my first turbo car with a manual transmission. I find that, when shifting near redline, if I'm deliberate with my shifts, I'm dropping out of boost and have to wait for the turbo to spool again in the next gear. What's the solution? Just shift faster and get back on the gas ASAP?
You can add a little bit of throttle before you're off the clutch all the way. A little bit isn't going to hurt anything. Note that I'm not talking about power shifting/no lift shifting.

This is the very reason you should generally shift 200-250 RPM past peak power. Which on our cars just happens to be redline. this allows you to drop into the power band instead of below it
 

typeaarrr

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The problem you're having is you're trying to use the same timing to shift at different rpm. To get smooth shifts, you have to learn the clutch engagement point and balance clutch slip while feathering the gas pedal.

Also, to minimize synchro wear, learn to feel the shifter when the synchros are engaging. This way, you're not jamming the shifter into gear and making the synchros work harder than they have to.
 


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when the engine is cold, the rpms usually tends to drop much faster than if it was warm also so you would have to shift and engage the next gear faster than you would if the engine was warm. I can bet its the rpm dropping past what it would be in the next gear and you clutching out is having to bring the rpm back up.

also the jerk may be less pronounced in comfort mode because the throttle isn't as sensitive as sport or +R so you have less of the jerkiness from abrupt throttle inputs.
I think he means like he's thrown forward instead of backward like a buck instead of a thrown back into the seat. Could be because revs are too low when shifting into next geaR?
 

boosted180sx

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I didn’t know the revs dropped faster when it’s cold. I do believe it could be the revs dropping below where they should be.
try recording the gauge cluster of you driving and should be obvious to people here.
I think he means like he's thrown forward instead of backward like a buck instead of a thrown back into the seat. Could be because revs are too low when shifting into next geaR?
yeah that's what i'm thinking. The revs are falling past where it would be for the next gear so when you clutch out, the revs have to get back up.
Or clutching out too fast before the rev falls giving a slight lunge idk... lol

timing is everything
 

RedGiant217

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I've said it before (Not sure if I've said it to you.) and I'll say it again. Get a friend that knows how to drive manual well and have them ride along every month or so. You will learn more from them in 10 minutes than you will in an hour on forums. You need someone that can feel what's happening and provide useful, real-time feedback.
 

Estoril4

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Agree that timing is pretty much everything and will change dynamically depending on many variables. Whether you jerk forwards or backwards gives you all the information you need as to where that perfect shift was. The car jerks forward your revs were too low, and back the opposite. Personally I find that at low rpms I need a pretty quick shift to 2nd as the revs fall immediately and dont have too far to go
 

MutatedMango

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try recording the gauge cluster of you driving and should be obvious to people here.

yeah that's what i'm thinking. The revs are falling past where it would be for the next gear so when you clutch out, the revs have to get back up.
Or clutching out too fast before the rev falls giving a slight lunge idk... lol

timing is everything
I think Ik what he's talking about bc I have the same problem after cold starts early in the morning sometimes. I don't think he's giving enough gas
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