Sensing technology on the R

[JYR]

In a few threads, it seems that there are two types of people interested in the R. Those who intend to buy it for its intended purpose (putting the R on the track) and those who intend to buy the R for a daily driver that looks the part. It seems there is a wide gap between these buyers and a heated topic is the thought of sensing technology on a track oriented vehicle.

Those who want the sensing, rightfully want it for the daily driving purposes. They feel that if the R offers it in some capacity as a global car, the US should get it just as well. -and to a degree, I agree with this logic.

Honda is marketing this vehicle as a track orientated vehicle. The customers who want to buy the R with track duty in mind, do not want sensing tech for a few reasons. #1, This buyer wants a no-frills R ready for the track and #2, sensing could hinder its track capabilities and sensing is starting to creep into the danger territory for those who track their cars. For those who have yet to get on track, understand that emergency braking could become a deadly situation very quick.

Well, as a new season of track days is upon us, vehicles with sensing tech are slowing becoming banned from the track.

Read all about it:
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2017/04/09/new-bmws-to-be-banned-from-some-track-days/

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[ayau]

IMO, Honda skimped on Sensing Technology to cut cost for the North American market.

 

[SaiHayashi]

In a few threads, it seems that there are two types of people interested in the R. Those who intend to buy it for its intended purpose (putting the R on the track) and those who intend to buy the R for a daily driver that looks the part. It seems there is a wide gap between these buyers and a heated topic is the thought of sensing technology on a track oriented vehicle.

Those who want the sensing, rightfully want it for the daily driving purposes. They feel that if the R offers it in some capacity as a global car, the US should get it just as well. -and to a degree, I agree with this logic.

Honda is marketing this vehicle as a track orientated vehicle. The customers who want to buy the R with track duty in mind, do not want sensing tech for a few reasons. #1, This buyer wants a no-frills R ready for the track and #2, sensing could hinder its track capabilities and sensing is starting to creep into the danger territory for those who track their cars. For those who have yet to get on track, understand that emergency braking could become a deadly situation very quick.

Well, as a new season of track days is upon us, vehicles with sensing tech are slowing becoming banned from the track.

Read all about it:
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2017/04/09/new-bmws-to-be-banned-from-some-track-days/

so you cant turn off sensing in bmw?
i would assume the +R automatically turns off all the road safety / behavioural alterating features, or at least a way to disable them, like the VSA off button.
It just doesnt make sense otherwise.

 

[NorthernEX-T]

I just thought it was a weight thing until I watched this video last night.. gets real hairy at the 3:35 mark. Big beeping distraction..

No sensing please. Or at least make it an option.

 

[exyia]

IMO, Honda skimped on Sensing Technology to cut cost for the North American market.

Hardly - when they're offering it as a $1000 option, they've definitely found a way to offer it for very little

I bet it has a deeper problem with the US DoT or some other US regulation that their implementation of Honda Sensing with a manual transmission does not meet

 

[ayau]

so you cant turn off sensing in bmw?
i would assume the +R automatically turns off all the road safety / behavioural alterating features, or at least a way to disable them, like the VSA off button.
It just doesnt make sense otherwise.

You can always disable them, but that requires the driver to manually turn it off.

At track days, this can be easily forgotten but the driver. I've forgotten to turn off traction control plenty of times.

 

[ayau]

Hardly - when they're offering it as a $1000 option, they've definitely found a way to offer it for very little

I bet it has a deeper problem with the US DoT or some other US regulation that their implementation of Honda Sensing with a manual transmission does not meet

You may be right. Are there other models out there that offer some kind of "Sense" option on manual transmission?

 

[JYR]

I have forgotten to turn off traction control a number of times but some of the articles around the net regarding the BMW is that sensing tech can not be fully defeated.

Surely there is a reason BMW clubs aren't allowing BMW track cars with sensing tech to the track for good reason.

 

[exyia]

You may be right. Are there other models out there that offer some kind of "Sense" option on manual transmission?

Not in the US. Not even if you "put in an order". I was given the whole list of options of what I can order if I'm willing to wait, and essentially - manual = no sensing.

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

It's on this rendition. Level of disable is unknown but I assume it is completely disabled.
If it won't disable with buttons, Duct tape over the cameras should do!

I can't explain why we didn't get it in North America. Ford has it on the Focus RS - maybe on the ST also? Not sure...
Either way, I can't see how the fact that it is a MT would affect LDW or LKA. ACC, yes I can understand that would be a bit goofy and subject to minimum speeds etc...

 

[JYR]

i would assume the +R automatically turns off all the road safety / behavioural alterating features, or at least a way to disable them, like the VSA off button.
It just doesnt make sense otherwise.

In my 9th gen, traction control and hill assist could not be fully defeated. Datalogging indicates braking via sensors after I was back on the throttle, with all controls off. I just learned to drive around it after a few incidences and realizing it was going to happen weather I wanted it to or not.

Honda actually offers a new ABS unit which fully disables all traction and stability controls but allows for aggressive ABS braking. It is only available through HPD and costs a few thousand dollars.

I really hope but doubt that traction and stability control can be fully disabled. Removing sensing would be a blessing for those of who intend to use the R on track and for the reasons outlined by the article.

 

[baldheadracing]

Hardly - when they're offering it as a $1000 option, they've definitely found a way to offer it for very little

I bet it has a deeper problem with the US DoT or some other US regulation that their implementation of Honda Sensing with a manual transmission does not meet

It is probably - probably - a marketing decision. Canada/USA DoT regulations are very harmonized, and sensing is available in Canada with the manual, albeit only (AFAIK) on the Hatch Sport Touring. In the Sport Touring, the difference in sensing features between the CVT and manual is that the manual's cruise control does not have low-speed-follow (but is still adaptive).

One has to keep in mind that manuals make up a very small percentage of sales, and purchasers are often price-sensitive.

 

[SaiHayashi]

In my 9th gen, traction control and hill assist could not be fully defeated. Datalogging indicates braking via sensors after I was back on the throttle, with all controls off. I just learned to drive around it after a few incidences and realizing it was going to happen weather I wanted it to or not.

Honda actually offers a new ABS unit which fully disables all traction and stability controls but allows for aggressive ABS braking. It is only available through HPD and costs a few thousand dollars.

I really hope but doubt that traction and stability control can be fully disabled. Removing sensing would be a blessing for those of who intend to use the R on track and for the reasons outlined by the article.

I guess its then down to how much time or actual safety would be compromised.

we will always have the mindset that we can lap better without it but meh not like i can reach anywhere near close to the car's full potentials

 

[GSquared]

Well, as a new season of track days is upon us, vehicles with sensing tech are slowing becoming banned from the track.

Read all about it:
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2017/04/09/new-bmws-to-be-banned-from-some-track-days/

Read the update on this story, it was a premature decision. "Now the BMWCCA chapter that started the debate is officially reversing its decision to ban some new BMWs."

In my 9th gen, traction control and hill assist could not be fully defeated. Datalogging indicates braking via sensors after I was back on the throttle, with all controls off. I just learned to drive around it after a few incidences and realizing it was going to happen weather I wanted it to or not.

Honda actually offers a new ABS unit which fully disables all traction and stability controls but allows for aggressive ABS braking. It is only available through HPD and costs a few thousand dollars.

I really hope but doubt that traction and stability control can be fully disabled. Removing sensing would be a blessing for those of who intend to use the R on track and for the reasons outlined by the article.

Maybe I'm crazy, but traction control was certainly disabled as long as my TPMS sensors were working. When I had my old 9th Si, it would have cut power every time I pressed the gas if it wasn't disabled. With it off I could spin forever and it wouldn't do a single thing.

Also, as I stated before, this is simple: make it an option on the car. If it is standard on the car, +R mode should just disable all these features for the track automatically. No one would run this car without +R mode on the track so that would solve the issues that are being referenced in this thread.

I just don't understand why everyone here is arguing so hard against having more features on a car that increase value, reduce insurance on something that is already going to be expensive, and provide some sort of extra safety for regular use of the car (to and from the track if that is all you are using it for...highly doubtful that many will use it purely as a track car and nothing else at all.)

 

[NorthernEX-T]

I can fully defeat the TC through a sequence of brake, ebrake, and hitting the button for TC. I can't see this not being the case with the CTR as well.

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