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remc86007

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There is nothing wrong with putting all that power down if you have KTuner - just set the torque tables accordingly. That way you cans still have the power in 3rd gear and up.
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Coming out of 500hp Evos and most recently a nearly 400hp Golf R, I’m almost convinced this car needs to stay stock. It’s plenty quick, but has traction and is nearly perfectly balanced.

Torque is the true enemy of FWD, and more of it will destroy that balance. This small turbo hitting like a sledgehammer in the middle as the result of tuning is the exact opposite of what we want.
 

RedGiant217

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As a side note, I highly recommend anyone with KTuner to change their torque targets per gear to prevent wheel spin in 1st and 2nd gear. It really makes the car feel faster to be able to floor it and go in any gear.
tried to replicate the torque curve as accurately as possible in the comfort mode (peaking at roughly 205HP and 205 TQ). By coincidence, my first time flooring it in first gear in comfort mode, I was shocked...it held perfectly and felt like a much faster car.


I was going to make this comparison to what you're doing but saw that you're intentionally copying Comfort mode. Do whatever makes you "feel" faster I guess.
 

remc86007

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I was going to make this comparison to what you're doing but saw that you're intentionally copying Comfort mode. Do whatever makes you "feel" faster I guess.
I'm confused by your comment. I have different torque targets in each gear and in each drive mode. In R mode I have it set to just a bit beyond what the tire can typically handle in each gear. If the tires are not warm and the pavement is not perfect, the tires will spin in 1st 2nd and often 3rd. Being electronically limited to right at the limit of the tires not only feels faster, it is faster than the standard Stage 1 tune where it will spin in 1st and 2nd unless you perfectly modulate the throttle. Modulating the throttle to the limit of traction is very, very difficult to do in real time with a drive-by-wire turbo car since power output lags slightly behind throttle input especially following the initial spool which is typically when the tires spin. In Sport mode I have the torque turned down a bit more in 2nd and 1st so that traction control doesn't cut boost while accelerating. (Traction control is way more intrusive in Sport mode than R mode). In comfort mode I have it setup like a Civic SI just for fun, not to be fast.
 

RedGiant217

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I'm confused by your comment. I have different torque targets in each gear and in each drive mode. In R mode I have it set to just a bit beyond what the tire can typically handle in each gear. If the tires are not warm and the pavement is not perfect, the tires will spin in 1st 2nd and often 3rd. Being electronically limited to right at the limit of the tires not only feels faster, it is faster than the standard Stage 1 tune where it will spin in 1st and 2nd unless you perfectly modulate the throttle. Modulating the throttle to the limit of traction is very, very difficult to do in real time with a drive-by-wire turbo car since power output lags slightly behind throttle input especially following the initial spool which is typically when the tires spin. In Sport mode I have the torque turned down a bit more in 2nd and 1st so that traction control doesn't cut boost while accelerating. (Traction control is way more intrusive in Sport mode than R mode). In comfort mode I have it setup like a Civic SI just for fun, not to be fast.
I thought you were just saying that being able to put the pedal to the floor made it feel faster. I guess what you're doing is probably similar to a launch control system.
I personally like trying to get the pedal modulation just right instead of just mashing the medal.
 


remc86007

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I thought you were just saying that being able to put the pedal to the floor made it feel faster. I guess what you're doing is probably similar to a launch control system.
I personally like trying to get the pedal modulation just right instead of just mashing the medal.
Me too...on non-turbo cars. Between the lag inherent in the turbo spooling up and the super aggressive traction control which cuts boost in sport mode the second a wheel slips a tiny amount, I just don't enjoy messing with pedal modulation most of the time. If I'm in the mood for wheelhop I can always switch to R mode haha
 

02SilverSiHB

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Coming out of 500hp Evos and most recently a nearly 400hp Golf R, I’m almost convinced this car needs to stay stock. It’s plenty quick, but has traction and is nearly perfectly balanced.

Torque is the true enemy of FWD, and more of it will destroy that balance. This small turbo hitting like a sledgehammer in the middle as the result of tuning is the exact opposite of what we want.
I see what you're saying...but so far stage 1 (ktuner) hasn't given issue in traction (in regard to the corners). Stage 1 is the most I'd go.

I don't ever launch my car or drag it.
 

Noize

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I see what you're saying...but so far stage 1 (ktuner) hasn't given issue in traction (in regard to the corners). Stage 1 is the most I'd go.

I don't ever launch my car or drag it.
I don't buy that for autocrossing or even track work where some low speed corners are involved. On a cool night, I have traction issues in first gear bone stock with high throttle input even already rolling. With a stage 1 tune, it will be useless in first and second gear, especially in corners without some serious torque limitation in the tune. Of course you can modulate that out with your right foot, but autocross is 95% first and second gear.

I have also seen some of these tunes that have pretty crappy curves that just fall off and die above 5500rpm.
 

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Torque is the true enemy of FWD, and more of it will destroy that balance. This small turbo hitting like a sledgehammer in the middle as the result of tuning is the exact opposite of what we want.

Sure it's not ideal, but it's still plenty of fun. Just because you have a lot of torque available doesn't mean you have to use it all the time. My Si is a daily commuter first and foremost, so during most of my driving I don't need to put down maximum power, but on the highway it's nice being able to effortlessly pass anyone as I please. I also enjoy frequent spirited drives through twisty roads, and with a good set of tires the car still handles like a beast. You do have to remember it is fwd and drive it accordingly, but there is something satisfying about perfectly timing your throttle application so that the turbo spools right as you exit the corner and you take off with just a slight hint of wheelspin. That being said, I personally don't plan on going much past 250-260 wtq.
 

Noize

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Sure it's not ideal, but it's still plenty of fun. Just because you have a lot of torque available doesn't mean you have to use it all the time. My Si is a daily commuter first and foremost, so during most of my driving I don't need to put down maximum power, but on the highway it's nice being able to effortlessly pass anyone as I please. I also enjoy frequent spirited drives through twisty roads, and with a good set of tires the car still handles like a beast. You do have to remember it is fwd and drive it accordingly, but there is something satisfying about perfectly timing your throttle application so that the turbo spools right as you exit the corner and you take off with just a slight hint of wheelspin. That being said, I personally don't plan on going
much past 250-260 wtq.
I haven’t driven a 10th gen Si yet, but am excited to!

I was more referring to the Type R. With a tune they are close to 400wtq. The turbine side of the turbocharger is too small for extreme tuning, and phase shifts the peaks over to the left too far for my liking. I prefer a powerband that is rewarding to rev. That’s why I don’t intend to tune mine and take away the balance it has stock.
 


02SilverSiHB

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I haven’t driven a 10th gen Si yet, but am excited to!

I was more referring to the Type R. With a tune they are close to 400wtq. The turbine side of the turbocharger is too small for extreme tuning, and phase shifts the peaks over to the left too far for my liking. I prefer a powerband that is rewarding to rev. That’s why I don’t intend to tune mine and take away the balance it has stock.
hmmm, you might want to ride in a CTR with a tune. I never have any issue with the stage 1 messing up the balance of the car. Drives perfect and the power delivery isn't overpowering to where I feel like I'm losing control of the car. Unless I'm just not noticing it since I've been on stage 1 for a while.

I don't think that a tune is necessary though. I sometimes wonder why I do what do lol...this car is fast enough stock
 
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Coming out of 500hp Evos and most recently a nearly 400hp Golf R, I’m almost convinced this car needs to stay stock. It’s plenty quick, but has traction and is nearly perfectly balanced.

Torque is the true enemy of FWD, and more of it will destroy that balance. This small turbo hitting like a sledgehammer in the middle as the result of tuning is the exact opposite of what we want.
I second this. I still have my Evo 9 SE and have owned 3 Evo X's, all of them modded and owned a few Subies also. The CTR is the only factory turbo car I have ever driven that I felt they got the tune right at the factory. I know there is room for improvement, but the stock tune is so good that I am in no rush to tune it and void my warranty lol. Threw on a cat-back for now and a K&N Drop in and I feel like I will be content for some time (except for the damn Greddy exhaust drone, ugh but thats another story haha)
 

02SilverSiHB

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I need to get mine dynod. Wonder what this stage 1 is giving me. Whatever it is...its enough to roast a 2017 c63 AMG not once...but twice...given we were already rolling at 60mph. From a dead stop that would be probably impossible.

After I beat the C63 the 1st time I let him get in front and let him hit it first. I was able to catch up and roll gradually past him...he looked a bit shocked lol
 

remc86007

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I need to get mine dynod. Wonder what this stage 1 is giving me. Whatever it is...its enough to roast a 2017 c63 AMG not once...but twice...given we were already rolling at 60mph. From a dead stop that would be probably impossible.

After I beat the C63 the 1st time I let him get in front and let him hit it first. I was able to catch up and roll gradually past him...he looked a bit shocked lol
I'd be a bit shocked too...and a little upset. Haha

I hope someday we find out how much drivetrain loss the CTR has. I'm guessing it is very small compared to other performance cars (especially AWD and RWD ones).

I was shocked I could reel in a current gen Mustang GT in the mountains at high speeds. In my situation I was at high altitude, so his NA motor was at a disadvantage, but still...
 

02SilverSiHB

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I'd be a bit shocked too...and a little upset. Haha

I hope someday we find out how much drivetrain loss the CTR has. I'm guessing it is very small compared to other performance cars (especially AWD and RWD ones).

I was shocked I could reel in a current gen Mustang GT in the mountains at high speeds. In my situation I was at high altitude, so his NA motor was at a disadvantage, but still...
Same here with the new GT also. But I know from a launch I'll get roasted...if it's that performance pack one that gets 11s lol
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