Rumors swirl.... 2016 Civic Si 2.0T with about 230hp.

[Design]

One thing I know for sure, gonna be hard to get me out of my DSG car for a MT only Si. If that were the case, I'd probably lease another GTI, and another, and another until Honda gets with it and puts a DCT in the Si. I ain't driving no damn stick shift in Seattle traffic ever again, and I ain't gonna drive no puny 1.5 CVT either.

Don't take this the wrong way; you'd be a prime candidate to trade into the ILX in 3 years. Acura sells the DCT equipped trim for around $27K here.

Its probably the same exact engine just de-tuned, most tuned turbo cars are good for a 30% increase. so do the math 30% of 230 = +70. 300HP. Essentially you might be able to get a car with a nerfed type-r heart. Might be a cheaper and lighter option for tuners especially if there's no type-r coupe.

Probably not, based on previous iterations of the ITR and CTR. Block, yes. Head and internals? No. Breathing hardware? Probably not, except for the turbo. I predict a good amount of components in the Si will be configured more for efficiency vs. all-out performance.

VW DSG has a reputation of not being very reliable. I quote another member @Razer

If we're basing this on VW's track record with previous models, that's likely going to be true. But we are only 3 years into the MKVII. Long term issues generally pop up outside the 60K warranty period. And a majority of MKVII owners have amassed 45K or less (15K/yr). I posted this reference on a different thread but just as relevant here. VW overall is lower than average (but not nearly as bad as some).
http://tradeinqualityindex.com/reports/Volkswagen.html

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[firsthonda]

Honda will never make a 300HP Civic for $26k in America. That would basically be the current euro Type R for almost $10k less money. Try to understand that its not just about the power. If you are going to have a FWD drive car with that much power, you need to have a suspension, brakes, electronics, seats, etc, that will keep the vehicle and driver safe on the road, in addition to ensuring long term reliability. Considering the 15 Si starts at just under $24k, you cannot add all those additional features for only $2k. The math just doesn't work.

And if somehow the guys at Honda HQ decided to drink heavy on the warm sake and did sell the Type R for $26K, you are not stealing lots of Ford Mustang and Chevy Camaro owners. To the greater majority of them, Honda is not even on their radar. Heck, the S2000 was never on their radar.

Now, will a few Ford Focus ST customers consider jumping ship? Yes. Yet at the same time, the average Si customer is not considering a Mustang or Camaro either.

And 300HP for $26k would be a steal with a 4 Cyl.

Remember, in their minds, Honda is not competing with the rest of the industry as far as sales numbers. If that was the case, they could easily start doing fleet sales like everyone and easily have the number one selling vehicle in each segment. That's just not who they are.

They aim to make the best products possible, fuel efficient, loaded with standard features, top safety rated, longest reliability, and be profitable.

And I'll tell one more thing. It has worked. While Honda is not a perfect car company, nor do they make a model for every type of customer out there, they are the only manufacturer who has never ended a fiscal year in a financial loss. No other car company can make the same claim. Not Mercedes, not BMW, not Toyota, and especially not any American car company.

Its just not about the outselling the competition with Honda. Really.

Ok I.hear ya. But no reason a 230 hp car should be manual only.

 

[HondaGeek]

Ok I.hear ya. But no reason a 230 hp car should be manual only.

It doesn't have to be manual only, I agree. I personally feel the Si should be manual only, but you know what? If there is enough demand, yes, it would be great if Honda offered the DCT.

You guys need to start the petition and hit Honda up on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, if you really want the auto. Talking about it on the forums is not enough. Trust me.

 

[Tegster]

Wow, one guys says "VW DSG has a reputation of not being very reliable" and you are just going to go with that?

People were upset when I pointed out how much Honda CVTs have sucked over the years.

No, I have heard and read about it in the past as well. That's just the DSG reputation that I know. You don't have to be offended and take it personally because you own a DSG GTI now. I wish you luck with it.

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

I think a fair compromise could be this -
Keep the Si 6MT (7MT? hah not likely)
Change the Civic Touring to same engine as Si but with DCT from TLX.

BOOM.
So you'll get your straightline performance just won't have the sporty handling of the Si unless you go with some HFP suspension or something. But really, if you're driving an automatic - an awesome automatic possibly - you're probably less interested in performance than you are in comfort and convenience of not having to put down your smartphone to shift!

(Not taking shots at automatic drivers - one of our cars is automatic. It's good for its purpose but I won't flog that thing like I do the Si)

 

[kidboise]

And BTW I highly doubt Honda would kill the 6MT anytime soon. Do you guys realize that Honda is a holdout?? They offer the 6MT in a Civic, an Accord Sport and an Accord V6 coupe for crying out loud! (Maybe even a 4cyl coupe?? I dunno) That is awesome of Honda. They are THE only mainstream manufacturer to do this. Don't even mention Mazda with their pittance of car sales. Honda is big, and you can still get a MT on several of their mainstream products.

THANK YOU. Yes, on top of the Sport, even the Accord LX and EX Sedans come in 6MT (without sensing). And I bet the redesigned 2018 Accord will STILL offer a manual. I love Honda's holdout-ness when it comes to this. I really don't think anyone should worry about the demise of a manual SI anytime soon.

 

[takemorepills]

Don't take this the wrong way; you'd be a prime candidate to trade into the ILX in 3 years. Acura sells the DCT equipped trim for around $27K here.

If we're basing this on VW's track record with previous models, that's likely going to be true. But we are only 3 years into the MKVII. Long term issues generally pop up outside the 60K warranty period. And a majority of MKVII owners have amassed 45K or less (15K/yr). I posted this reference on a different thread but just as relevant here. VW overall is lower than average (but not nearly as bad as some).
http://tradeinqualityindex.com/reports/Volkswagen.html

RE: ILX, I am enjoying the hatchback WAY too much at this point. For me, I am taking a hiatus from owning a sedan for a while now. Coupe is OK though.

Regarding VW quality, I will not argue that point. In 23 years of driving, this is my first time to own a German car. In fairness to the GTI/R vehicles, we really should consider them as separate from the rest of the VW lineup. I will not own a non-performance German car, ever. But, looking at JUST the MK7 GTI/R, these are not unreliable cars by any means. Their peers would be the WRX/STI. I have been on NASIOC for many years now, and Subaru has never been able to match typical Japanese car reliability reputation with their turbo cars. What you just said about VW definitely applies to turbo Subarus, they all need their head gaskets and turbos replaced by 90K miles. And the new FA20 and WRX are definitely having way more problems than any MK7 GTI.
Let's not try and compare GTI and R to Camry's and Accords. You can compare Passat to Camry if you want...since I don't care about either car I don't consider those metrics.

Additionally, I have always considered sporty German cars a "lease only" option for me. But now that Honda has put a cancerous infotainment system in the CivicX, I also now consider the CivicX in the same "lease only" category, therefore anyone who touts Honda's reliability when they themselves only lease or trade in regularly really should not be talking about "reliability" because they are not even going to own the car long enough to know.
Really, people on here defend the new Android infotainment system DESPITE the fact that it is trendy and sets an expiration date on the new CivicX. And you know what, if you have to keep bringing in your new Honda because the infotainment system keeps crashing, that is "unreliable". Just needing to go to a dealer is what brings people down on a car, whether it is a recall or a infotainment issue...doesn't matter, you're at the dealer. again.

BTW, I am still a die-hard Honda fan. But they currently don't make a turbo hatchback yet. Nor do we know what the SI will be (drivetrain wise). I am only in the VW camp until my lease is up. If the new Si is a 2.0T and DCT, I will buy one.

No, I have heard and read about it in the past as well. That's just the DSG reputation that I know. You don't have to be offended and take it personally because you own a DSG GTI now. I wish you luck with it.

DSG has been out a while now. Since Mk5, we are now into the Mk7 gen. The Mk5 mechatronic had issues, but Mk6 and Mk7 have been solid.

On CL I have seen a whole slew of nice early 2000's Preludes and Accords that are in great condition but have a blown automatic trans. They had such a bad problem you'd have to be a fool to argue otherwise.

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

Good points- always lease German cars!

 

[Bubb2521]

MK7... Not solid. My wife HAD one. She loved it, I... Well it's no Honda, Nissan, Toyota. Got rid of it at 13,000 miles. Look at my last 2 cars. TT RS. The thing was a beast... 5,000 miles and already had issues. The TT and GTI (autobahn pkg) both had little rattles and stuff that should never have shown up so early (if ever). The TT RS is a 360HP $50,000 car for crying out loud and it had a weird noise in the back right wheel by the suspension that the mechanics could never fully solve. I've owned a lot of cars in my time. VW and Audi... I will never buy again. That's just one guys opinion to another...

That's why I'm here as well... Die hard Honda fan, waiting for the Type-R.

 

[Shralper]

Best news I've heard since the Civic coupe concept was released. Been waiting forever to hear something on this. Ive already been prepared for a major letdown, and even began actively looking at other options lately. This changes everything.

As far as the HP goes, it's a bit less than I was hoping, but still more than the GTI. And if the torque and the curb weight are similar, it should be plenty of power. Should do 0-60 in the upper 5 sec range easy. And just imagine what some mods could do.

Very, very excited. Hopefully we'll get a confirmation soon.

 

[Shralper]

TT RS. The thing was a beast... 5,000 miles and already had issues. The TT and GTI (autobahn pkg) both had little rattles and stuff that should never have shown up so early (if ever). The TT RS is a 360HP $50,000 car for crying out loud and it had a weird noise in the back right wheel by the suspension that the mechanics could never fully solve. I've owned a lot of cars in my time. VW and Audi... I will never buy again. That's just one guys opinion to another....

Ah, the infamous unsolvable problems that VWs and Audis are plagued with. Keep throwing money at them, yet they just won't go away. Sadly it sounds like nothing has changed over the decades. As much as I love them, I would never own one again for that same reason.

 

[CTR]

VW/Audi would be the last make of car I would own. They are known for issues in nearly all of their systems but people continue to buy them based on their exterior/interior styling alone. Comparing their reliability to a Subaru (Japan's least reliable manufacturer) doesn't really say a lot.

And really? The infotainment system is unreliable in the new Civic so you would never own one? I'm sure they have bugs just like any other software product. The nice part is that they can be updated frequently (hopefully without a dealership visit). Maybe it's just me but I'd take an unreliable "entertainment" system over an unreliable drivetrain/basic electrical system any day of the week.

Back on topic: I hope that the Si comes with a 2.0L turbo. This would mean that they might really step things up with the Type R and go to a hybrid AWD system or a 2.4L turbo like others suggested. 220-230hp seems perfect for the Si and will definitely be enough of an increase over the Touring model to justify the increase in price or reduction of features.

 

[BakedTuna]

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...g-dual-clutch-transmissions-lose-favor-in-u.s.

 

[firsthonda]

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...g-dual-clutch-transmissions-lose-favor-in-u.s.

Ok I read that. Man the concept is awesome of a dct. But i be happy with a six or nine speed auto with paddle shifters in my Si

 

[H_P]

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...g-dual-clutch-transmissions-lose-favor-in-u.s.

Interesting article. But even so, the article goes on to say that they expect DCT to rise to 5% of total car sales by 2020.

Has the DCT in the ILX been well received and had any real issues?

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