Rumors swirl.... 2016 Civic Si 2.0T with about 230hp.

[Regi_Derrick]

From insider poster "RolledaNSX" over on Vtec.net who is about 80 percent right when it comes to rumors/insider info with the newest Hondas.

the HP plan for the Si was around 230hp and that is why they couldn't use the 1.5L Turbo(too much boosted needed=more chance to break and bad. MPG)

So it gets the 2.0L Turbo

Im getting excited Now just give me that 2.0t, some LED headlights and taillights, sunroof, navigation and some sport cloth seats and I'm sold

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[05 Si]

2.0T would be awesome! And the tuning upside to that would be so much better than a 1.5T which already runs 16.5 PSI boost from factory. Argh can't wait!

 

[HondaGeek]

This would make sense. 220-240HP was my initial guess. It needs to be somewhat close to a Focus ST. 20HP under is not the end of the world, since it will offer a much better package (and reliabilty) overall. In addition, it will be easier for the aftermarket to produce components, since it will be similar to the 2.0 from the Type R, just like with the Evo X and the lower spec Ralliart model.

 

[hothatchi]

So a more basic and less powerful version of the Type R engine, I like it!

 

[HondaGeek]

So a more basic and less powerful version of the Type R engine, I like it!

That's pretty much was Mitsubishi did with the Ralliart mode. It didnt have as heavy duty of a AWD system, since it was not available in the manual and the DCT did not handle as much power. The 4B11 engine, however, was a detuned version of what you found in the Evo X (bottom end was the same, head was different).

 

[Phosky]

Hopefully they retain the same gear ratios as the 2016 CTR.
1 3.625
2 2.115
3 1.529
4 1.125
5 0.911
6 0.734
Final Drive 3.842

That 5th gear is getting really close to 1:1 for strong highway pulls

 

[takemorepills]

This is certainly more welcome than the 1.5T rumors.

Now that I own a 2.0T FWD car (just leased a 2016 GTI) I have some input on the experience that Honda has certainly considered.

220-240 Turbo FWD HP is a lot to manage, especially in so light of a car. With FWD, there's not much you can do to get going 0-60 better than 5.6-5.9 secs repeatable with what a OEM is going to give you for tires. My GTI will "blow the tires off" when it hits boost in lower gears, and this will likely become a term familiar to Si 2.0T owners. On nice, sunny days, this will be less of an issue.
High power FWD cars are more about "rolls" and higher speed passing. It's pretty easy to blow the tires off at low speeds, which can be challenging.

I also want to revisit the DCT probability. I really hope Honda blesses the Si with a DCT. All of the manual purists will howl, but a DCT would be awesome for a turbo Si. I have DSG in my GTI. Freaking love it. I find a wide open road, put the DSG into "manual" paddle shift to 1st, roll out and let boost hit at 2K revs, then I bang gears at 2200-2300 revs, the DSG shifts so fast the car rides it's peak torque with boost NEVER dropping (do that manual tranny!!) it pulls like a rocket, rips through gears, it just plain hauls ass. It's really incredible to pull so hard with almost no effort from the 2.0T. Even the GTI manual purists acknowledge the performance superiority of the DSG. The DSG is repeatable, fast, convenient, it is very tough and responds better to mods than the MT. Of course MT GTI owners still think the MT is "more pure", they know a DSG will out-drag every time.
To pan a DCT/DSG as merely a "soul-sapping" auto is unfair. DCT/DSG is a tour-de-force of automotive technology. I hope the Si gets one.

 

[Design]

If you look at all discussions for the last 3-4 months, most have been projecting a 2.0T as THE likely solution. Though 240-250 HP would be better.

But let's be clear here. A "detuned" CTR motor likely means a different head, valvetrain, pistons, rods, intercooler, intake, exhaust, and possibly the turbo. Everything will be optimized more for practicality vs. strictly performance. I also think the DCT will be reserved for the upcoming ILX redesign (or offered at that time in parallel).

 

[firsthonda]

That sounds good to me. As long as prices stay affordable. And ditto on the DCT I think Honda needs to bring this over from Acura. The car needs some paddle shifters and some extra fun sportiness for people who don't want to shift gears. Heck have the car use the 2.0 but less hp and run on regular gas but have the ilx primed to the max so there is some advantage over civic. Heck have them have even a better auto in the ilx. But give us 8 DCT

 

[10thG]

I think this was about the best case scenario for the Si, really happy if this turns out to be accurate. The 1.5L would have been too anemic for the Si to make the type of power they need reliably.

 

[firsthonda]

I wouldn't be surprised if that snag in communication about Si has something to do with the engine. Maybe its a 1.8 and they went back to the drawling board.

 

[Design]

No, I think this is simply a resource issue. They put everything, and I mean everything, into accelerating the launch of the 1.5T.

I'm sure the 2.0T has long been slated for the Si. But I imagine the details are slowly trickling down the ranks as more teams prep for its launch.

 

[HondaGeek]

It's been clear for years that a DCT is a faster performing transmission. This is the reason why Ferrari stopped offering manuals after the California six years ago, in addition to a wider customer base and increase in profits. Nissan also took this route with the current R35 GT-R, commissioning the same company who made the auto for the Veyron for their's, much to the dismay of many import fans around the world. A friend of mine was so disappointed in this that he went out and purchased a R32 Skyline GT-R. He just couldn't fathom an automatic Godzilla.

While a DCT is faster, it is a fact that the demands on the driver are less, especially when entering a corner at high speeds, when the mastery controlling the steering wheel, shifter and all three pedals are required. Im not saying DCTs are bad, just that they are not for everyone, yet are for the majority of consumers.

Most enthusiast, not all, want a true manual transmission. I for one am not clamoring for Honda to offer a DCT on the Si, not because of love for manual transmissions, but because it can signal the end of the 6 speed sooner rather than later. It would go without saying that a DCT may outsell the 6 speed manual, which would encourage the production of less row-it-yourself Sis, and inevitably the complete exclusion of them. It would be a shame for this to happen.

At the same time, there are so many other vehicles that a offer a DCT (like the GTI), that it would be fitting for Honda to keep the Si pure, as it has been since the beginning.

I wonder if everyone on the forums has driven a manual Honda product. Whether its a Civic Si, ILX 2.4, TL or the S2K, you would have, without a doubt, experienced the best manual transmissions in the world, regardless of price.

In the words of Motor Trend's time attack driver, Randy Pobst, when he test drove the 2014 Civic Si, “Absolutely, it’s fabulous. The only thing wrong with it is it’ll spoil them because it shifts so well. What’s neat is it shifts. It still has a manual — a real, live manual — and a very good one. I enjoy that so much. I miss it when I drive cars with the modern versions of different automatics. Although, I’ll tell you the shifts are still so much slower than a modern automatic. That has to cost time (lap time).”

Yes, DCTs are faster, but they will never replaced the full experience of a real manual transmission.

 

[Vtak Groceries]

Hopefully the Si does get the 2.0t..... However I still think the 1.5T can hit the power goals of 230hp and maintain reliability.... But the 2.0t might actually be the easier option if 230hp is the number. We will see.

As far as a Honda DCT in the Si.... Doubt it. Maybe in 3 years or more lol. Id be surprised if they offered that in the Si.

 

[takemorepills]

What is this talk of "purity"?? Want "purity"??? Take the engine out of the car, put big holes in the floor for you to use your feet and yabba dabba doo that sh1t.
A car is a machine. Arguing what type of machine it is in relation to it's "purity" is ridiculous. If it makes someone happy, it is pure to them.

And BTW I highly doubt Honda would kill the 6MT anytime soon. Do you guys realize that Honda is a holdout?? They offer the 6MT in a Civic, an Accord Sport and an Accord V6 coupe for crying out loud! (Maybe even a 4cyl coupe?? I dunno) That is awesome of Honda. They are THE only mainstream manufacturer to do this. Don't even mention Mazda with their pittance of car sales. Honda is big, and you can still get a MT on several of their mainstream products.

Honestly, Honda may be one of the last ones standing with mainstream MT selections in a few years. VW may give them a run for their money.

Speaking of MT's, DCT's and VW...being at a VW dealer was an amazing experience. On a Friday, when I test drove the GTI, there were dozens of GTI's on the lot...2 doors, 4 doors, 6MT, DCT's...holy crap man it dawned on me WTH is Honda pissing about for?? VW sells plenty of 2 door and 4 door hot hatches! There were plenty of people buying GTI's that Friday night and Saturday that I picked up my car. In the internet sales office, there were 3 of us finalizing deals on GTI's. The other 2 were 6MT's. SO don't fret about MT and DCT....over at VW they coexist quite well, and from what I can see there is a pretty even split for both cars in sales. A DCT Si won't signal "the end" of any damn misconceived notion of "purity". It is about choices. The CVT on the other hand, we may all agree that it is just an appliance of sheeple.

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