Rivals: Honda Civic, Chevy Cruze and Mazda 3 battle for affordable hatchback supremacy

IDriveACivic

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Stirring up a discussion here! Obviously this forum will disagree with the verdict :D
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kritz

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IDriveACivic

IDriveACivic

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Mazda needs to bring back the Speed3.:yes: Car and Driver had the Civic on top comfortably(they tested manuals). The Cruze is a major turd. Really surprised GM can't seem to get small cars right.

https://www.caranddriver.com/compar...s-chevy-cruze-mazda-3-vw-golf-comparison-test


Oh and welcome to this forum. It's one of the best out there.:thumbsup:
Thanks! Yeah the Cruze doesn't seem like it belongs there. Maybe they're trying to showcase two ends of the spectrum: sporty car in the Mazda 3, and mobile tech in the Cruze. The Civic has a blend of both :)
 

xcoreflyup

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Seen the Cruze in both sedan and hatchback style in person. The thing is ugly. They should take note from KIA which I found to be doing a better and better job each time.

I like the Mazda and their unique styling. At the end, the civic won me over.
Honda Civic 10th gen Rivals: Honda Civic, Chevy Cruze and Mazda 3 battle for affordable hatchback supremacy f0ccbc9a3dfea17b34744d5548790697
 

charleswrivers

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I saw a video of a test drive w/Mazdas new HCCI engine. Claimed output was 190hp and 220 ft/lbs of torque. If it has that kind of power, something Mazdas have lacked other than their 'speed' cars, and return a combined 40 mpg... maybe more (just guessing based on their estimated percentage gain), they could have a winner on their hands.
 
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kritz

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That KIA does look nice!
 

xcoreflyup

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I saw a video of a test drive w/Mazdas new HCCI engine. Claimed output was 190hp and 220 ft/lbs of torque. If it has that kind of power, something Mazdas have lacked other than their 'speed' cars, and return a combined 40 mpg... maybe more (just guessing based on their estimated percentage gain), they could have a winner on their hands.
I always love mazda for these kind of engineering break through that they do.
 

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I backed out of a Civic Hatch LX 6MT order that was taking too long to get here. I'm betting that Mazda is going to rule this segment with an iron fist when the next gen Mazda3 comes out next year. It's going to be the prettiest, most powerful, and most fuel-efficient hatch ever with Skyactiv-X. So I'm keeping my aging RSX, which I still love, till the new Mazda3 comes out.
 
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IDriveACivic

IDriveACivic

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I backed out of a Civic Hatch LX 6MT order that was taking too long to get here. I'm betting that Mazda is going to rule this segment with an iron fist when the next gen Mazda3 comes out next year. It's going to be the prettiest, most powerful, and most fuel-efficient hatch ever with Skyactiv-X. So I'm keeping my aging RSX, which I still love, till the new Mazda3 comes out.
Next iteration of the 3 is to have torsion beam rear suspension as opposed to IRS.
Skyactiv-X does sound very promising, but we'll wait and see how the first year model performs in real world. In my opinion, if Mazda3 wants to "rule the segment", it needs address the following:
  • NVH dampening
  • Adding more function (space-wise) over style
Failing that, it'll only capture the niche pseudo-enthusiast market like it does now.

We haven't even taken into account what VW will do to the Golf, and what other "dark horse" brands will produce (e.g. Hyundai and Kia).
 

charleswrivers

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I backed out of a Civic Hatch LX 6MT order that was taking too long to get here. I'm betting that Mazda is going to rule this segment with an iron fist when the next gen Mazda3 comes out next year. It's going to be the prettiest, most powerful, and most fuel-efficient hatch ever with Skyactiv-X. So I'm keeping my aging RSX, which I still love, till the new Mazda3 comes out.
It does look like it will be awesome, engine-wise. I'm not sure how the HCC engine will be right off the bat. Between the transition from spark to compression ignition. Also, I know injectors for port injection are (relatively) cheap. I'm not sure about our DI cars. I've had a lot of my Navy buddies who've bought diesels that were relatively inexpensive used and couldn't afford to repair them when they required injector repair. It was prohibitively expensive on a vehicle which, new would cost 2-3x what I assume of mazda3 would cost... so I would be interested since this is a gas engine that does compression ignition, if it will have similar sky high repair costs. I will happily enjoy my 10th gen Civic, my first car with DI which is pretty mature now, but look at HCCI with a lot of interest... and see how the tech works and matures.
 


jks

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Next iteration of the 3 is to have torsion beam rear suspension as opposed to IRS.
Skyactiv-X does sound very promising, but we'll wait and see how the first year model performs in real world. In my opinion, if Mazda3 wants to "rule the segment", it needs address the following:
  • NVH dampening
  • Adding more function (space-wise) over style
Failing that, it'll only capture the niche pseudo-enthusiast market like it does now.

We haven't even taken into account what VW will do to the Golf, and what other "dark horse" brands will produce (e.g. Hyundai and Kia).
Mazda is saying that the torsion beam is being used to address NVH. I think that's BS, though. They're doing it to cheap out. I'm still hoping they'll give that idea up. As far as space, the 10th gen Civic hatch and current Mazda3 hatch have very similar interior dimensions and seat-down cargo capacity. Not sure what you mean there. Anyway, it's a moot point till we see the next gen Mazda3. Honda has done very well sales-wise with the new Civic hatch. There's definitely folks that still want economical, sporty hatches and money to be made. My biggest gripe with Honda is their stingieness with the 6MT. Mazda offers the 6MT in all trim levels and doesn't play upsell games by keeping the 6MT away from those that want it. Honda's 6MT BS cost them a sale (mine). My biggest gripe with Mazda is the sparse dealer network. Nearest dealer to me is 180 miles away. The next gen Mazda3 has to be a slam-dunk over the Civic or customers like me won't go out of their way to buy it.

We've already seen Hyundai's answer to the Civic. It's OK, but not competitive fuel-economy wise. VW? Hah! Yes. Sign me up for maintenance and reliability headaches so I too can say, "I'd never buy another VW!"

It does look like it will be awesome, engine-wise. I'm not sure how the HCC engine will be right off the bat. Between the transition from spark to compression ignition. Also, I know injectors for port injection are (relatively) cheap. I'm not sure about our DI cars. I've had a lot of my Navy buddies who've bought diesels that were relatively inexpensive used and couldn't afford to repair them when they required injector repair. It was prohibitively expensive on a vehicle which, new would cost 2-3x what I assume of mazda3 would cost... so I would be interested since this is a gas engine that does compression ignition, if it will have similar sky high repair costs. I will happily enjoy my 10th gen Civic, my first car with DI which is pretty mature now, but look at HCCI with a lot of interest... and see how the tech works and matures.
Any new car is a risk, especially with a new engine, but I think direct injection has been around long enough that engineers know how to design it properly. The Skyactiv X is not that far away from Skyactiv G in design or cost except for the supercharger or "high response air supply" as Mazda prefers to call it. That's definitely a question mark. Most of the rest of the differences between Skyactiv G and X are software and much easier to update/fix than hardware.
 
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IDriveACivic

IDriveACivic

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Mazda is saying that the torsion beam is being used to address NVH. I think that's BS, though. They're doing it to cheap out. I'm still hoping they'll give that idea up. As far as space, the 10th gen Civic hatch and current Mazda3 hatch have very similar interior dimensions and seat-down cargo capacity. Not sure what you mean there. Anyway, it's a moot point till we see the next gen Mazda3. Honda has done very well sales-wise with the new Civic hatch. There's definitely folks that still want economical, sporty hatches and money to be made. My biggest gripe with Honda is their stingieness with the 6MT. Mazda offers the 6MT in all trim levels and doesn't play upsell games by keeping the 6MT away from those that want it. Honda's 6MT BS cost them a sale (mine). My biggest gripe with Mazda is the sparse dealer network. Nearest dealer to me is 180 miles away. The next gen Mazda3 has to be a slam-dunk over the Civic or customers like me won't go out of their way to buy it.

We've already seen Hyundai's answer to the Civic. It's OK, but not competitive fuel-economy wise. VW? Hah! Yes. Sign me up for maintenance and reliability headaches so I too can say, "I'd never buy another VW!"



Any new car is a risk, especially with a new engine, but I think direct injection has been around long enough that engineers know how to design it properly. The Skyactiv X is not that far away from Skyactiv G in design or cost except for the supercharger or "high response air supply" as Mazda prefers to call it. That's definitely a question mark. Most of the rest of the differences between Skyactiv G and X are software and much easier to update/fix than hardware.
The numbers might be similar, in terms of interior space, but the difference is a lot more noticeable in person. The Civic sedan's backseat is approaching the levels of early 2000s Accords. Mazda 3's rear seats felt almost like a Ford Fiesta. Mazda 3 kept closer to the original compact size; whereas, the new Civic is stretching the envelope. Civic hatchback's rear seat is marginally smaller than the sedan.

Trunk-wise, Civic sedan beats the 3 sedan pretty easily. For the hatchback variation, the Civic has more usable space; especially with seats up. The new Civic is pretty creative when it comes to other storage space; namely, the center cubby. I've cross-shopped both vehicles, and the 3 felt cramped (it didn't help that the rear window was so tiny).

With all that said, the 3 is still a wonderful car. On paper, it was my first choice before I started car shopping. I later found out it had too many trade offs for me personally.

As for the Golf, it's always going to be the benchmark hatchback; given the history and all. Reliability* aside, non of the economy brands offer both great driving dynamics and refinement. If I had started my car shopping later, I might have considered a 2018 Golf; since it comes with a 6yr/72000 miles warranty.
 

turbo lover

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My Civic has already had more electrical problems than I had in 7 years with my Golf. With that new 6 year warranty, the Golf is worth considering.
 
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IDriveACivic

IDriveACivic

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My Civic has already had more electrical problems than I had in 7 years with my Golf. With that new 6 year warranty, the Golf is worth considering.
If you don't mind me asking, what were the electrical problems on the Civic, and what year was the Golf?

With most new cars being integrated with technology, it's hard to avoid nagging issues.
 

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If you don't mind me asking, what were the electrical problems on the Civic, and what year was the Golf?

With most new cars being integrated with technology, it's hard to avoid nagging issues.
The rain sensing wipers don't work properly, and my trip computer's trip history is not displaying any mileage data. I've gone to the dealer twice for each issue and they are still figuring out a solution. The Golf was a 2010.
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