Risk of blowing a turbo?

[maynard001]

It should be easy to see whether it's an isolated instance, or something caused by tuning collectively, by using percentage.

KTuner has had tunes in the field starting with public testing nearly three years ago, totaling over 5000 active 1.5T Civics around the world currently utilizing the software. Mind you there's Accords and other turbo models, too, but let's leave them out for now. Use a round number of 5000 to calculate a percentage for those who have experienced some sort of mechanical issue. If you find 5, that's .001 or .1%. If you find 10, that's .002 or .2%, and so on. It would take 50 failures to reach a 1% failure rate.

Thanks. I understand how percentages work. Does Ktuner track how many customers report tune-related failures? I'd be interested to see this data if it's kept and able to be shared.

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[KTuner]

Thanks. I understand how percentages work. Does Ktuner track how many customers report tune-related failures? I'd be interested to see this data if it's kept and able to be shared.

Tune related on our included base tunes? I'd be hard pressed to find you even one mention of that, but definitely search around.

 

[charleswrivers]

I believe these succes stories a slightly exaggerated on much it improves. I see no actual times to show improvement. It could easily be a placebo effect. I’m getting one eventually but I’ll make my own judgment.

Here are 2 threads to see some times, one all trims one Si only for 1/4 mile times for people with various tunes and other mods. A mid/high-14 on the OEM summers is about as quick as a stock Si ever is. Lots of cars running less than that. A recent Si ran a 14.1 on a hot day with a TSP stage 1 and a intake. And that's from a FWD car who is never going to really shine doing a 1/4 mile.

https://www.civicx.com/threads/official-drag-strip-1-4-mile-time-thread-gen-x-si-only.23918/

https://www.civicx.com/threads/10th-gen-civic-1-4-mile-times.15758/

 

[dallasjhawk]

I would say no to tune since your worried about reliability. Yes you could blow your engine tuning if something goes wrong. I’m debating the same thing but I will only do it if I have the money for it just to try it out. I believe these succes stories a slightly exaggerated on much it improves. I see no actual times to show improvement. It could easily be a placebo effect. I’m getting one eventually but I’ll make my own judgment.

I can promise you they are not exaggerated, it is a noticeable difference on the basemaps. Let's take into consideration the actual boost you hit stock on a non si is around 12-13 psi, so even the 1st basemap on ktuner 16.5 is already adding boost. The starter 21 is 8 psi over stock so even more power. Now consider that stock calibrations are generally set up to run richer and Ktuner brings them into a more power making range, you certainly notice the power there too

Thanks. I understand how percentages work. Does Ktuner track how many customers report tune-related failures? I'd be interested to see this data if it's kept and able to be shared.

As a senior member here who is one of the most active members (top5 #humblebrag) and having spent/wasted countless hours on these forums reading and commenting, I can say from my memory I dont know of one ktuner customer who blew an engine, turbo or transmission on a base map provided Ktuner, even those that have maxed quick adjustments. And even from Facebook, where Im in multiple groups I dont recall seeing anyone post about it. Trust me, if there was one, people would be quick to let me or the forum or the pages know since the competition was fierce there for a while. Obviously Im not privy to @KTuner help desk or email so I cant speak for them but according to his reply above, he hasnt heard of one either. Hope that helps.

 

[ParkwayDrive13]

A turbo can fail for many reasons.

If some one was running Ktuner's basemap, i'd lean closer to the failure being due to abuse or due to a manufacturer defect/issue on the turbo before ever looking at the basemap. Especially when you consider how conservative it is.

The boost levels on these tunes aren't even close to the maximum output that these turbo's can achieve. And the tune does a very good job at keeping the AFR's where they need to be as well. However, that doesn't stop people from saying "Ope, blew my turbo, ktuner v2" while providing 0 information about the failure itself.

 

[gtman]

Just a quick observation.

There are definitely two "camps" here at CivicX. Those who aren't tuned and those who are tuned. There's an awful lot of "I doubt a tune really does much" and "a tune will add power but screw your drivetrain" type comments from the untuned side.

Dallas, Charles, me and so many others here have been tuned for quite some time and many, many thousands of reliable miles. Ktuner tested these tunes for reliability and safety.

These tunes aren't being created by fly by night companies. Both Ktuner and Hondata have been around for a while and pride themselves in creating a safety margin in their base tunes.

I love my tuned car. It's taken a car with a surprisingly peppy stock drivetrain and turned it into a much more confidence inspiring ride.

To those that aren't tuned. Give it a try. I think you'll be shocked with the difference and the reliability.

 

[charleswrivers]

I can think of 2... maybe 3 engines that failed from their rods going... all running modified basemaps or something beyond a basemap. All of those cars weren't Sis. That started a desire to check and see if the Si rods were different, which where found to be different and a little but harder, though they looked to be dimensionally identical. There was the young military person that just started a thread that sounded like he threw a rod... but he was also 2-stepping a cold engine. I know there have been a couple turbos replaced under warranty for failure but, of that group, I don't remember whether any were running a tune or not. I've seen a few misshifts damage a car... with the CTRs throwing their starter gear off their flywheels and not being able to crank afterwards a couple times.

There are a lot of Hondata and Ktuner users on this forum, and I'd guess we represent a decent sized, but still minority fraction of all adopters. From what I've seen thus far, your engine statistically about as likely to fail due to a oil change at the dealer where the oil drain plug is not tightened and comes out (there's been 2 or 3 of those on here over the last couple years... and have been either lurking or active on the forum for about 1.5+ years).

I did my first tune, a 21# basemap at a couple months old and ~2500 miles... did a few flavors of the 23# basemap for ~6 months and have done the TSP Stage 1 for ~6 months. I dipped my toe in the water and took incremental steps to add mote power. I bought the car knowing from day 1 I would not keep the stock tune and only waited to allow it to break in (1/2 of the 2500 miles was from a 1200 mile interstate trip). If you want to tune your car... power can be added incrementally. If you don't... you don't have to. I am fully prepared for my engine to blow and have to replace it, out of pocket... and have the means to cover the expense. I do not expect this to happen though. I have had cars tuned since I was 17 years old with my first 300zx. I have never suffered a turbocharger or engine failure... though I did have a timing belt break one time and had to get my head fixed... and have hydrolocked my car... with it suffering no damage as a result. Neither mishap was due to tuning directly, though a CAI driving through deep water on my part contributed to the hydrolock). I do think tuning adds risk... but I'm happy to bet a probably-not-going-to-have-to-spend-it few thousand dollars-to-fix-this-car to make my good ~200 whp car... a more enjoyable ~250 whp car... because it's what I wanted from day 1, and the price point for the car was right and I've weighed the risk and the reward and feel it's worth it.

My risk-dismissive attitude extends to other car-things as well... I tend not to buy extended warranties. Why? They're a waste of money to me. Why do I say this? If companies lost money on them over all the vehicles they sold them on... they'd lose money... and overall, they're not losing money. A warranty is betting against the house that car will break for more money than your warranty cost. Chances are... it won't. If you have the means to cover repairs out-of-pocket, it's not money well spent. Also, since I knew I'd tune from day 1, I had no intention to bring an obviously modified broken car to the dealer to try to get them to fix a powertrain issue I caused.

I tend to buy older cars that are cheap compared to a new car and have more history than this one... but I didn't this time out. That was an additional risk. Only now in the last year have we gotten more than a couple clutch options... aftermarket turbo choices. We're *just* getting there with aftermarket performance parts. When I got active on the forum, there was barely anything.

Historically, from all I've ever experienced, as long as cars are maintained properly, even if they're tuned, I've never had one break on me and cost much of anything out of pocket. Those old cars just had a pile of extra boost thrown at them. They were all pre-OBD2. There was no good way to monitor them. You can put a tune on our cars and monitor k.control... and other items such as fuel trims and intake temps and know whether what you're doing is good long-term for the car. When it comes to the ability to validate that something is flashed to your car, this gives me a whole lot more comfort than installing a boost gauge... hearing such and such a psi is good because it'd be well under 100% of your injector duty cycle and running it. Given the amount of data I can record or see in real time after changing something, it makes me very comfortable with making changes. That comfort though was gained by doing a lot of reading and making incremental changes along the way.

OP... I've given you what I've seen in my time looking around. You're free to look for yourself. This is coming from someone who is very cautious and doesn't want to abuse or break the stuff that's his... but is also not very risk adverse and does all his own preventative maintenance in his driveway and would perform out-of-warranty corrective maintenance rather than go to a shop or dealer for most circumstances. Taking on risk is a personal decision... and you have to decide if you're too risk adverse to make a change that isn't a need... but a want. If you have a tune and are in a constant state of worry then that wouldn't be very enjoyable. That's a personal decision. I don't think @KTuner will, or needs to go out of their way to sell you on their product as being sufficiently low-risk for you to buy it. They will, from personal experience and all I've seen, support you as a customer with their basemaps and caution you from straying outside their boundaries. This is because they're confident in their product and their basemaps as shipped... and overly encouraging any person without the tools and skill to go outside the basemap is encouraging a damaged engine... like the few I've seen pop up.

 

[NoKz]

I threw a KTuner with a @Two Step Performance Stage 1 Tune when I had 1,000 miles on the ODO. I ran that up until about 8,000 miles with zero issues. I then added my CAI, Flex-Fuel Kit and TSP Stage 2 Tune. I'm at 13,000 miles with zero issues. The car feels great and doesn't give me any issues. I avidly keep an eye on my K.Cntrl, temps, oil pressure, etc. I am in no way worried about my car giving out on me in it's current configuration.

With that said, a lot of the issues you see with people blowing turbos, throwing rods, etc. are usually custom tunes and/or negligence.

 

[gtman]

With that said, a lot of the issues you see with people blowing turbos, throwing rods, etc. are usually custom tunes and/or negligence.

Yep. Negligence... abuse... etcetera. It's kind of like the whole "guns don't kill people, people kill people" saying.

We just need to change it to "tunes don't kill engines, people kill engines"...

 

[mfwalsh942]

To those that aren't tuned. Give it a try. I think you'll be shocked with the difference and the reliability.

Currently not tuned (bought the Sport Hatch 2 weeks ago) but going to Wake the Dragon where I'm hoping I can learn a lot more about tuning. Strongly considering K Tuner, and really just looking for a little more... "pep in my step" as I drive to and from work every day. Thanks for the encouragement, I'm definitely going to give tuning a try.

 

[gtman]

Currently not tuned (bought the Sport Hatch 2 weeks ago) but going to Wake the Dragon where I'm hoping I can learn a lot more about tuning. Strongly considering K Tuner, and really just looking for a little more... "pep in my step" as I drive to and from work every day. Thanks for the encouragement, I'm definitely going to give tuning a try.

And that's EXACTLY how I use my tuned car. My Civic is my DD and the tune takes my boring commute from "OK" to "hell yeah" with a jab of the accelerator pedal. But it's way more than that. If I take it easy, I still get great gas mileage. There's noticeably less lag and a lot more responsiveness even at part throttle. It feels like the tune Honda should have used. I know it probably sounds like I'm doing a KTuner infomercial but the car drives soooo much better tuned.

 

[bluehatch17]

It’s not a placebo effect. The car is much quicker and response is better. Driving experience is night and day. Don’t floor it every chance you get and drive like a moron and your car will be fine.

 

[jondrax19]

How many miles should you have in your ODO before you can tune?

 

[gtman]

How many miles should you have in your ODO before you can tune?

Obviously, go beyond the break-in period. But, after that, it's up to you. I was tuned before my first oil change was done.

 

[jondrax19]

Obviously, go beyond the break-in period. But, after that, it's up to you. I was tuned before my first oil change was done.

Like around after 5k?

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