Rear Sway Bar: Eibach/Whiteline 22mm or Progress 20.6mm?

[NixChixFix]

I apologize if this has been answered in a separate thread, but I couldn't find a direct comparison of the two.

I'm going to be ordering a rear sway bar soon to upgrade on my Si Coupe, and I pretty much have it down to either the Eibach 22mm, or the Progress 20.6mm. I don't do track, but I do a lot of spirited driving. The 22mm seems to be a huge upgrade vs the OEM Si Bar, but I read on a separate thread that the 22mm bars makes it easy to induce oversteer, and that's got me a little worried that I might send myself flying into an off-ramp railing. I then found myself looking at the Progress 20.6mm bar, which seems to have a more conservative approach, but now I'm worried that it may not be a significant enough upgrade vs the OEM Si Bar to warrant the money.

I read nothing but good things in other threads about both bars compared to the OEM Sport ones, but has anybody had experience with both, or could possibly ease my anxiety about the 22mm/provide more feedback on the 20.6mm?

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[hobby-man]

So I started a thread a while ago about this, we got into some pretty heavy detail.

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/rsb-eibach-22-mm-vs-oem-18-mm-si.35896/

Basically, you can't just compare 22mm without knowing the specs of the bar. Eibach is 22mm tubular (hollow) bar, whereas I don't know if Whiteline bar is 22mm solid. There is a gigantic difference between the two. I don't know what the Progress bar is, but at 20.6 mm if it's solid, its in Type R OEM territory.

I can't find any details that confirm the Whiteline is solid construction, which would put it way above OEM Type R category if so. If it's tubular, I'd call it roughly equivalent to the Eibach.

So, in short you need more info. Contact the manufacturers and let me know? If the progress is hollow, it's a slight stiffness increase over Si and I wouldn't bother. If it's solid and you're worried about oversteer, then it may not be for you.

 

[NixChixFix]

So I started a thread a while ago about this, we got into some pretty heavy detail.

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/rsb-eibach-22-mm-vs-oem-18-mm-si.35896/

Basically, you can't just compare 22mm without knowing the specs of the bar. Eibach is 22mm tubular (hollow) bar, whereas I don't know if Whiteline bar is 22mm solid. There is a gigantic difference between the two. I don't know what the Progress bar is, but at 20.6 mm if it's solid, its in Type R OEM territory.

I can't find any details that confirm the Whiteline is solid construction, which would put it way above OEM Type R category if so. If it's tubular, I'd call it roughly equivalent to the Eibach.

So, in short you need more info. Contact the manufacturers and let me know?

Ah, I saw that thread as well.

Progress' website says that it's a solid sway rated for 550 lbs/in, vs the OEM Si's 457 lbs/in.
Whiteline, from what I can tell, is also a solid bar but I can't find the spring rate for them.

 

[hobby-man]

Ah, I saw that thread as well.

Progress' website says that it's a solid sway rated for 550 lbs/in, vs the OEM Si's 457 lbs/in.
Whiteline, from what I can tell, is also a solid bar but I can't find the spring rate for them.

So if the Whiteline is a solid bar, you may find it's too much for you. Unfortunately really only one way to find out...

https://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/Update BL-281.pdf

Based on that, you're looking at 123% increase in stiffness going from a 19mm solid OE bar to a 22mm solid Whiteline bar. Probably something like a 60% increase in stiffness with the Progress RSB. Hard to say where the Eibach falls compared to those two without knowing the wall thickness of the bar.

I did see a forum post, with no source or references, that you can approximate a hollow bar as a solid being 2mm less. i.e. a 22mm hollow bar is equal to a 20mm solid bar.

https://www.toronto-subaru-club.com...daf6b7d5f678&p=1599005&viewfull=1#post1599005

So with very little info, I rank the bars as:

Whiteline 22 mm solid >> Progress 20.6 mm solid ≈ Eibach 22 mm tubular

 

[NixChixFix]

So if the Whiteline is a solid bar, you may find it's too much for you. Unfortunately really only one way to find out...

https://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/Update BL-281.pdf

Based on that, you're looking at 123% increase in stiffness going from a 19mm solid OE bar to a 22mm solid Whiteline bar. Probably something like a 60% increase in stiffness with the Progress RSB. Hard to say where the Eibach falls compared to those two without knowing the wall thickness of the bar.

I did see a forum post, with no source or references, that you can approximate a hollow bar as a solid being 2mm less. i.e. a 22mm hollow bar is equal to a 20mm solid bar.

https://www.toronto-subaru-club.com...daf6b7d5f678&p=1599005&viewfull=1#post1599005

So with very little info, I rank the bars as:

Whiteline 22 mm solid >> Progress 20.6 mm solid ≈ Eibach 22 mm tubular

This is what I got back from Whiteline:

Hi Nick, please see attached rate in Nm -
22 Soft Result 22 Hard Result
10mm 129 158.5
20mm 272 337.5
30mm 410 545.5
40mm 576.5 775.5

When I do the Nm to in/lbs conversion, it seems WAYY too high to make sense.

 

[hobby-man]

This is what I got back from Whiteline:




When I do the Nm to in/lbs conversion, it seems WAYY too high to make sense.

That doesn't even make sense in terms of units. Spring force is in lbs/inch. That's a compression measurement. Nm are torque, which is inch*pounds when converted. Different measurements. Without knowing anything else (also your chart pasted quite weirdly) I would have guessed those numbers were already in pounds/inch.

 

[arpypat]

Progress also makes a 22.2mm solid bar for the new Accord/Civic. I have one on my Si. It's rated at 740 lb/in. This is almost exactly the same as the Type R OEM RSB.

 

[NixChixFix]

That doesn't even make sense in terms of units. Spring force is in lbs/inch. That's a compression measurement. Nm are torque, which is inch*pounds when converted. Different measurements. Without knowing anything else (also your chart pasted quite weirdly) I would have guessed those numbers were already in pounds/inch.

Yeah, they just pasted it plain text like that so I couldn't make out the columns. I'll try to get some more info from them.

Progress also makes a 22.2mm solid bar for the new Accord/Civic. I have one on my Si. It's rated at 740 lb/in. This is almost exactly the same as the Type R OEM RSB.

Was it a big improvement for you vs the OEM bar? Any issues with lift-off oversteer?

 

[NixChixFix]

Hmm...I just discovered a $20 coupon code on Progress' site which makes me lean towards their bar now. Either the 22.2 or the 20.6.

 

[arpypat]

Was it a big improvement for you vs the OEM bar? Any issues with lift-off oversteer?

No issues with lift-off oversteer. I installed Ktuned springs and a DC front strut bar at the same time, so that may have alleviated any tendencies to oversteer.

I also got the $20 off coupon. Total was $198 shipped straight from Progress.

 

[NixChixFix]

No issues with lift-off oversteer. I installed Ktuned springs and a DC front strut bar at the same time, so that may have alleviated any tendencies to oversteer.

I also got the $20 off coupon. Total was $198 shipped straight from Progress.

Ah. My browser crashed and now the coupon won't add.

But I have the DC FSB as well, and I do plan to lower it on Eibach springs eventually, so you not having any issues with oversteer really calms my anxiety about a thicker bar. I'll see if I can get this coupon to work and will probably get the 22.2mm.

 

[Hondanickx]

The swaybar comparison isn't that simple either.
You can't just compare swaybar thickness if you're all using different springs .
Some lowering springs already have a higher spring rate in the rear to increase turn in.
If you would add a type R swaybar to that it could end up in oversteer.
On a different spring setup it could drive perfectly fine.

Also hollow bars can also be stiffer then solid bars.Look at the 1" hollow bar from Karcepts for the 10th gen civic. I rather have a hollow bar so you also shave off unsprung weight.

Here's some info from Karcepts:


Sway Bar Rates:

OEM 2017 Civic Si Rear Sway Bar (18.0mm Solid, 5.9 lbs) = 457 lbs/in
OEM 2017 Civic Type R Rear Sway Bar (20.5mm Solid, 7.5 lbs) = 721 lbs/in

Karcepts 10th Gen Civic Rear Sway Bar Kit - 1.00" O.D. x 0.095" Wall:
Hole 1/1 = 795 lbs/in
Hole 1/2 = 859 lbs/in
Hole 2/2 = 931 lbs/in
Hole 2/3 = 1016 lbs/in
Hole 3/3 = 1113 lbs/in
Hole 3/4 = 1229 lbs/in
Hole 4/4 = 1365 lbs/in
Hole 4/5 = 1529 lbs/in
Hole 5/5 = 1725 lbs/in
Kit Weight = 4.7 lbs

Center Section Recommendations:
Karcepts has put the 2017 CTR chassis through its paces with their sway bar kit in both autocross and track trim. From all testing to date, Karcepts believe 90+% of our customers will find the range of the 1.00" O.D. x 0.095" wall thickness bar to fulfill their needs. You will be 3 wheeling your Civic in every corner, especially with the ability to stiffen 2.4 times greater than a stock CTR rear bar. Due to the substantial oversteer the 0.095" bar is able to generate, we recommend all customers choose this bar to start. If later down the road you find your setup requires even more rotation, the 0.188" wall center section can always be purchased separately.

Vehicle applications: All 2016+ Civic coupe, sedan, hatchback, and 2017+ Civic Type-R

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