Rationale for choosing betwen EX-L (with Sensing) vs Touring?

[spets]

Not PnP, the regular car has separate plugs for the bulbs while the LED headlight is reduced to a single connector.. But wouldn't be too hard to create a jumper harness once the correct pinout is determined.

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[hondo]

The more money you spend/go up trims, the faster the car will become outdated.

That's an argument for always only getting the base trim. This is a valid line of reasoning for those who want the absolute best bang for the buck. It's also why it's the most popular trim. Some people are fine with paying more for amenities even if the benefits aren't long term. The same can be said about the rest of the car. Cars aren't exactly an appreciating investment anyway.

 

[takemorepills]

Not PnP, the regular car has separate plugs for the bulbs while the LED headlight is reduced to a single connector.. But wouldn't be too hard to create a jumper harness once the correct pinout is determined.

You saw this with your own eyes?

 

[dick w]

You saw this with your own eyes?

In another thread I opined that they were probably the same harnesses. The more I think, that seems unlikely for two reasons: 1) no need to make the bulbs individually replaceable in the LED--surely it's the whole unit if any emitter goes out, 2) the LED would use much less current so enable smaller wire gauging so less cost in a LED-specific harness and it could use cheaper switches, fuse holders, connectors, etc. Lower current requirement is always a win.

 

[benjaminh]

The more money you spend/go up trims, the faster the car will become outdated....

Sometimes I think the opposite can be true. For instance, in January of 2008 I bought a close to top-of-the-line Accord, an EXL navi with new fangled features like Bluetooth, dual zone climate control, voice activated navigation, etc., etc. Few Hondas had those features at that point, but now a lot of them do. But by buying a higher trim level, I don't feel left out with cars of today, even though mine is 8 years old. Plus everything still works perfectly.

The whole idea of CarPlay and AndroidAuto is that it's updated for hardware and software as your phone is updated.

And until Google or someone comes out with a self-driving car in c. 5-10 years (which will probably cost 100k or so, and be for the very rich), HondaSensing is likely to be in the range of what is offered on popular cars.

We'll just need to agree to disagree.

 

[takemorepills]

In another thread I opined that they were probably the same harnesses. The more I think, that seems unlikely for two reasons: 1) no need to make the bulbs individually replaceable in the LED--surely it's the whole unit if any emitter goes out, 2) the LED would use much less current so enable smaller wire gauging so less cost in a LED-specific harness and it could use cheaper switches, fuse holders, connectors, etc. Lower current requirement is always a win.

Another reason it may be unlikely (disclaimer: I admit just guessing here): WRX has LED headlight option, and there seems to be some kind of diagnostic function of their system. The WRX's are having issues with their LED headlights, and warnings are displayed in the MFD, warnings specific to the LED headlight system. Wondering if Honda's LED implementation will be similar? I think we can look to the Accord's LED headlight system, they are probably similar implementations.
Actually, the standard projector lamp system isn't too bad. The LED DRL is the same, and it's not too difficult to retrofit some nice HID bi-xenon projectors. That's probably what I will do. Good quality HID projectors probably are on par with the Civic's all LED headlight.

 

[Design]

The Japanese brands in general are pretty good with their lamps, including LED. I also agree that the infotainment will continue to be relevant for years to come. AA and Carplay standards are pretty static when it comes to the headunits. Those just require L2CAP-capable Bluetooth and screen mirroring capability. Everything else is managed through the phone.

 

[takemorepills]

The Japanese brands in general are pretty good with their lamps, including LED. I also agree that the infotainment will continue to be relevant for years to come. AA and Carplay standards are pretty static when it comes to the headunits. Those just require L2CAP-capable Bluetooth and screen mirroring capability. Everything else is managed through the phone.

WRX LED headlamps are Made in Japan. Just saying though, because I do think LED headlamps are good. Just don't go making un-substantiated claims about them. After 15 years THEN we will know if they were reliable for 15 years. Not just on your 2015 assumptions of this new use of the technology.

The problem for the infotainment is twofold:

1. New phones (or, more accurately newer device firmware/software revisions) will constantly challenge the Android based infotainment system to "keep up". Look at all the devices out there, all the different firmware running around. Someone is gonna need to "be on top of it" for years to come, they need to keep the updates and patches flowing to your Android based infotainment. At what point is your infotainment system no longer supported and what happens after that?

2. At what point does the hardware get obsolete? At some point phone manufacturers and/or the infotainment manufacturer will tell us that modern smartphone (or whatever is the trend in 10 years) can not interface with such old hardware.

Think I am just poo-pooing this "great" technology?? I have a drawer full of outdated Android phones that say otherwise. Can't wait until my current Android phone becomes obsolete and I gotta go get a new phone.

For people who only keep a car for a few years, there is no reason to worry about these issues. Those of us who keep a car a long time, like I do, this is a very worrisome development in what used to be a tremendously reliable, responsible vehicle to buy for the "long haul".

My backup car, if the Si doesn't work out, is a 2016 WRX. But I was just following up on that car, Subaru has a similar setup in the WRX called "Starlink". It's buggy as hell also. People are getting fed up with it and spending real money on yarding out the Starlink head unit. At least on the WRX, removing the Starlink HU doesn't affect your HVAC.

 

[Design]

I would think if Honda screwed the pooch with their LED we'd be hearing widespread failures in the Accords by now lol. Mazda has been using LEDs in different configurations since at least '07 in some of their upper GT trims. I'd be interested in seeing any discussions on the Subaru issue as I'm also considering the WRX-L.

Time will tell, but BT 2.0 has been around since '04 and is still highly relevant today for everything except L2CAP external control (Siri eyes free, Google Voice, BT touch, etc). Worst case, with the Civic being a high volume platform, it's likely a third party will have produced an aftermarket solution to retain HVAC and other controls.

Kanatesch for example makes integration kits for Mazda and, when replacing the Bose unit, was able to integrate the logic to retain my Auto Climate Control that was partially managed within the old HU. Not cheap; but by no means expensive enough to justify getting another "new" car.

Enon (Chinese company) has gone so far as to preserve the entire LED display including the Trip Computer and Artist/Title display.

 

[amalgamate]

Sometimes I think the opposite can be true. For instance, in January of 2008 I bought a close to top-of-the-line Accord, an EXL navi with new fangled features like Bluetooth, dual zone climate control, voice activated navigation, etc., etc. Few Hondas had those features at that point, but now a lot of them do. But by buying a higher trim level, I don't feel left out with cars of today, even though mine is 8 years old. Plus everything still works perfectly.

The whole idea of CarPlay and AndroidAuto is that it's updated for hardware and software as your phone is updated.

And until Google or someone comes out with a self-driving car in c. 5-10 years (which will probably cost 100k or so, and be for the very rich), HondaSensing is likely to be in the range of what is offered on popular cars.

We'll just need to agree to disagree.

This is where I'm at with it. Bottom line is I'd rather have a car that's not antiquated for 6-7 years than be antiquated like - next year! Plus, Honda Sensing is a safety feature and better to have it for the next 10 years in a car I plan on keeping than not at all.

In terms of EX-L + Sensing vs. Touring, the main factors for me were the wheels, the LED headlights and the sound system. I didn't like the wheels on the EX-L and I didn't want a car I was going to keep for 10 years have some visual component I wasn't a fan of.

 

[spets]

You saw this with your own eyes?

I looked at the wiring parts list between the Touring edition and the Civic EX-L edition. LED headlights have a single plug for all functions while EX-L has individual bulb plugs.

 

[SPEEDANDTECH]

nothing is going to be obsolete in 10 years. Come on look at 2005 cars, they are still running around the streets and doing their things.
25k for a car is really under the avg. car price, so it's really shouldn't break anyone's bank for the matter.

 

[lightthief]

Sometimes I think the opposite can be true. For instance, in January of 2008 I bought a close to top-of-the-line Accord, an EXL navi with new fangled features like Bluetooth, dual zone climate control, voice activated navigation, etc., etc. Few Hondas had those features at that point, but now a lot of them do. But by buying a higher trim level, I don't feel left out with cars of today, even though mine is 8 years old. Plus everything still works perfectly.

The whole idea of CarPlay and AndroidAuto is that it's updated for hardware and software as your phone is updated.

And until Google or someone comes out with a self-driving car in c. 5-10 years (which will probably cost 100k or so, and be for the very rich), HondaSensing is likely to be in the range of what is offered on popular cars.

We'll just need to agree to disagree.

Sensing is definetly the kind of package you'll see on non-luxury cars for quite a few years.
If you take Tesla as the gold standard on that front, even far more expensive cars are still playing catch up.
The more extended options are still quite expensive to implement.
That Honda put together that kind of system as a $1k add on a "compact" car is remarkable.

The basics of the infotainment are such that a software update could easily continue providing value as long as Honda committed to software updates.
Android and iOS aren't going anywhere any time soon. Innovation has slowed down as the platforms have become more stable.
It's all incremental for the next few years.

 

[lightthief]

I have the touring.
The extras are nice, especially the sound system.
I have crappy night vision so the LEDs are excellent.

Heated rear seats will bring joy to any passengers face if you love someplace it gets cold.
It's currently 31 here so I'm loving it.

That said.
I think I'd actually have been happy with the ex-t with sensing. It was very nice.
The main feel of the car doesnt change much.
But if you are looking at the ex-l with sensing you might as well get the touring I'd say.

 

[Godkillah]

by the logic demonstrated in this thread you should never get any tech at all that isn't standard on the lowest trim because it will be outdated.

by that logic you will never enjoy any of the modern benefits of the technology out there and that is fine. But I disagree there is really no point in sacrificing features that you would enjoy because financially they dont make a good investment (news flash cars are terrible investments) We are all going to die someday might as well enjoy the benefits of the era we live in. Or we could all just drive LX's even after flying cars come out because teleporters are just around the corner and flying cars are a waste of money.

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