Randy Pobst drove my car. For those that race\track - is there ANY way to eliminate tire rollover on the OEM fronts without running insane pressures

[Z3papa]

I'm still scratching my head as to why anyone would buy and go through multiple sets of Contis on the track when there are so many better suited tires. Citing the cost is foolish because if you bought a tire more suited for tracking, it would last longer, perform better and end up saving you money. I guess if you are selling the car, I can understand but then I'd ask why take it to the track.

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[willskiGT]

I'm still scratching my head as to why anyone would buy and go through multiple sets of Contis on the track when there are so many better suited tires. Citing the cost is foolish because if you bought a tire more suited for tracking, it would last longer, perform better and end up saving you money. I guess if you are selling the car, I can understand but then I'd ask why take it to the track.

Guessing he means Cup 2s. They were very cheap a few months ago (around $100/ea), so not a huge deal to destroy them, but the car does still eat them up because there isn't enough front camber.

 

[remc86007]

I'm still scratching my head as to why anyone would buy and go through multiple sets of Contis on the track when there are so many better suited tires. Citing the cost is foolish because if you bought a tire more suited for tracking, it would last longer, perform better and end up saving you money. I guess if you are selling the car, I can understand but then I'd ask why take it to the track.

The Contis are crap on track, but here is why I still have Contis on my Type R 2.5 years into ownership: I have managed to pick up 8 of them over the past two years averaging less than $100 per tire because tons of people pull them off the car and sell them with very few miles when they buy the car and live in a place with snow. They actually do okay at aggressive street driving (dragon run) and Daytona where they get the long straights to cool a bit. I took them to one low speed track and burned through the front tires in 2hrs.

 

[Z06_Pilot]

The Contis are crap on track, but here is why I still have Contis on my Type R 2.5 years into ownership: I have managed to pick up 8 of them over the past two years averaging less than $100 per tire because tons of people pull them off the car and sell them with very few miles when they buy the car and live in a place with snow. They actually do okay at aggressive street driving (dragon run) and Daytona where they get the long straights to cool a bit. I took them to one low speed track and burned through the front tires in 2hrs.

+1, I can confirm the OEM Conti's do great on Dragon runs. It took very aggressive driving to get the car to step out, or even break traction on Dragon runs. But I do experience this tire "rollover" issue when I am taking a 90 degree right turn on the street, and turn in quickly. it's a real buzz kill.....sure, part of that is the front drive and all that weight compressing the front end, but as high performance tires, I too am not impressed with the OEM's.

to the OP: That was a fantastic experience. I think the dream of all weekend track drivers is for someone like that to drive our cars and wring every ounce of performance they are capable of. And VIR, ah VIR. hands down, my favorite track to drive. The climbing S's....a beautiful thing.

 

[d15b7]

hello. the number one issue i'm seeing here is that you need more front negative camber. i don't track my CTR (it's my nice everyday fun driver car); I do track my heavily modded EG w/K24/20 frankenstien EFR7163 turbo. I run about -3.5 deg neg camber up front on that car to keep the tires happy (I run Hoosier A7 tires on it 295-35-15 front 225-45-15 rear) and it's much lighter than our CTRs (my EG racecar weighs in about 2400 with me in it so probably about 900lbs lighter than my CTR). you GOTTA GET more neg camber up front on a powerful fairly heavy FWD car like our CTRs if you want to maximize grip and not destroy your tires. on my EG with Hoosiers I aim for about 36 psi hot pressure coming in after a timed run, that's the sweet spot for me. 50+ is insanely high (that's where you were right?). my front tires wear fairly evenly with the insides wearing a tiny bit faster than the outsides (that due mostly to wheelspin comping out of tight corners. mine is putting down 450-500whp on the low tune powersetting)

Todd

EDIT: my personal best at VIR was last year at the UTCC ran a 2:01.9. car was NOT running anywhere near perfect and there should be an easy peasy 1:58-9.x in it once it is.

 

[djhartm]

hello. the number one issue i'm seeing here is that you need more front negative camber. i don't track my CTR (it's my nice everyday fun driver car); I do track my heavily modded EG w/K24/20 frankenstien EFR7163 turbo. I run about -3.5 deg neg camber up front on that car to keep the tires happy (I run Hoosier A7 tires on it 295-35-15 front 225-45-15 rear) and it's much lighter than our CTRs (my EG racecar weighs in about 2400 with me in it so probably about 900lbs lighter than my CTR). you GOTTA GET more neg camber up front on a powerful fairly heavy FWD car like our CTRs if you want to maximize grip and not destroy your tires. on my EG with Hoosiers I aim for about 36 psi hot pressure coming in after a timed run, that's the sweet spot for me. 50+ is insanely high (that's where you were right?). my front tires wear fairly evenly with the insides wearing a tiny bit faster than the outsides (that due mostly to wheelspin comping out of tight corners. mine is putting down 450-500whp on the low tune powersetting)

Todd

EDIT: my personal best at VIR was last year at the UTCC ran a 2:01.9. car was NOT running anywhere near perfect and there should be an easy peasy 1:58-9.x in it once it is.

2:01 is SMOKING! Congrats!

My PB in my Z06 is 2:06 & change.

What is required to get more camber in the CTR? Camber plates? With -3.5 degrees that pretty much makes it a non DD correct, because the insides would get destroyed on the street.

Yeah Randy checked the tires. 52 L 50 R hot. WAY too high, but, they didn't roll over & chunk.

 

[d15b7]

thanks DJ! ya was having issues with overheating (LOL yes even other hondas other than CTRs overheat at the track!!! only could do one hot lap after the outlap and once I started to try to do a second flyer the coolant was cresting 235 F so I'd have to stop). there were some issues with the front suspension too and it just wasn't behaving properly but I was happy with the 2:01.9 for sure too

here's my 2:01.9 lap incar:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmUHWCpbUJmArDc6VlFjH6wsdnTN?e=as8RV0

I'm an instructor for just about every group plus hold race licenses with NASA SCCA VRG and have been on track since 1993 and racing since 1999 so have a lot of experience (I've been running my EG on track since 1997 so she's part of the family!!). but that day at VIR last year she was a total handful -- bad bad surging at part throttle (mapping issue plus a boost leak at the throttle body adapter we found later) and the issues with the front lower control arms caused MASSIVE hunting in the front end and made it really scary-tough to drive. she was rocking and rolling but def put down a time that made some of the other cars go 'hmmmmmm?'

On a CTR I'd expect you need some adjustable camber plates up front; on my EG I use adjustable upper control arms to dial in the camber but the older Hondas use a totally different (and maybe even arguably better perhaps) setup. and no I'd say that -3.5 deg up front would be bad for daily driving would be hard on the tires for sure

 

[djhartm]

thanks DJ! ya was having issues with overheating (LOL yes even other hondas other than CTRs overheat at the track!!! only could do one hot lap after the outlap and once I started to try to do a second flyer the coolant was cresting 235 F so I'd have to stop). there were some issues with the front suspension too and it just wasn't behaving properly but I was happy with the 2:01.9 for sure too

here's my 2:01.9 lap incar:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmUHWCpbUJmArDc6VlFjH6wsdnTN?e=as8RV0

I'm an instructor for just about every group plus hold race licenses with NASA SCCA VRG and have been on track since 1993 and racing since 1999 so have a lot of experience (I've been running my EG on track since 1997 so she's part of the family!!). but that day at VIR last year she was a total handful -- bad bad surging at part throttle (mapping issue plus a boost leak at the throttle body adapter we found later) and the issues with the front lower control arms caused MASSIVE hunting in the front end and made it really scary-tough to drive. she was rocking and rolling but def put down a time that made some of the other cars go 'hmmmmmm?'

On a CTR I'd expect you need some adjustable camber plates up front; on my EG I use adjustable upper control arms to dial in the camber but the older Hondas use a totally different (and maybe even arguably better perhaps) setup.

That's really cool. I will be out instructing for Tarheel BMW, TrackDaze, and Chin again later this month. PM me your contact info and let me know if\when you are back at VIR.

Here is the Lemons car Randy & Frank were testing.

 

[Speed9117]

1) Wheel/tire package that doesn't suck. 18s or 19s with a proper track tire - RE71, A052, etc.

2) Bigger rear sway bar if you want more rotation. Or play with rear tire pressures. You can induce some more tail happy behavior with higher rear tire pressure.

3) Camber plates if the above two don't solve your problem.

Adding camber to the stock 20s and rubber band tires might be an improvement, but it will much less of an improvement compared to a proper wheel/tire setup.

 

[metal_driver]

Here is one way to adjust the front camber;

https://www.hardrace.com/whats_new_detail.asp?id=1032

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/new-hardrace-front-lower-camber-adjusters.32232/

 

[Blayze999]

Randy definitely prefers a car to be a little less twitchy in the rear, he likes rotation but not crazy oversteer. Progressive and predictable.

I've raced the R and currently race an Si and I'm currently running a staggered setup (255 fronts/245 rear) with a stiffer (adjustable) rear bar. I've found that I can get some nice rotation out of it with those things and a little higher pressures in the rear.

I'd say if you want to track this thing regularly, downsize the wheels to 18s and get a wider tire w/ more sidewall.

50/52 is crazy high. Even when I had my RS4 I ran RE71s (275s on 18x10) and I didn't have to run pressures that high to keep it from chunking. And that car is an absolute tank.

And if it just so happens the wheels would fit, I even have those BC Forgeds sitting in my family room looking for a new owner

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