Randy Pobst drove my car. For those that race\track - is there ANY way to eliminate tire rollover on the OEM fronts without running insane pressures

djhartm

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I had Randy Pobst drive me in my car yesterday at VIR.

It was a really cool experience but he could not get the car to grip around low speed corners. I have to run very high pressures otherwise the tires roll and chunk\fail. When we came in, fronts were 52/50 L/R.

He said more camber, but I'm at the max with the stock pins removed.

He also said I could try lower pressure then going easy until they came up to temp\pressure increased. But I've gone through so many sets of tires that have failed already and Cup 2's are very expensive.

He also said the car needs to rotate better and suggested adding some positive tow to the rear to make it looser.

I guess wider 18" wheels with more sidewall is an option as well.

Sliding sideways through T10 to the very edge of the curbing was a moment I won't soon forget. I never knew the Type-R could slide so predictably at speed on a road course.

Oh, and he took 10 seconds off my lap times (and I'm a seasoned instructor). Randy can really drive!
Honda Civic 10th gen Randy Pobst drove my car. For those that race\track - is there ANY way to eliminate tire rollover on the OEM fronts without running insane pressures Randy1


Honda Civic 10th gen Randy Pobst drove my car. For those that race\track - is there ANY way to eliminate tire rollover on the OEM fronts without running insane pressures Randy4


Honda Civic 10th gen Randy Pobst drove my car. For those that race\track - is there ANY way to eliminate tire rollover on the OEM fronts without running insane pressures randy6
 
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Lust

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A lot of us that have been tracking this car for a long time found this out very early. We moved to 18" wheels with wider rubber 265+. You can add more camber in the front with hard race ball joints and fix turn in with a stiffer rear sway bar. Best bet is to set rear toe close to zero or 1/32" in and 0 toe front.
 


remc86007

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You could try reverse stagger and or bigger rear bar. Also Randy’s preference is different than yours so keep that in mind.
But Randy's preference is objectively correct, because, you know, he's Randy Pobst.
 

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Your car’s resale value just went through the roof because Randy drove it. Show that picture to the potential buyer and it’s as good as sold.
 

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That’s mind blowing to me that a seasoned instructor can have his time bested by 10 seconds by anyone, even if it’s a living legend. I said wow. Must’ve been an amazing experience!
 

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That's an awesome experience you had! Good insight into car setup as well.
 


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djhartm

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That’s mind blowing to me that a seasoned instructor can have his time bested by 10 seconds by anyone, even if it’s a living legend. I said wow. Must’ve been an amazing experience!
He was actually about 8 seconds faster than my student's times, who took Randy out with Track Addict running. My student (who Caymen was on slicks) was ~2-3 seconds off my times in the Type-R, so maybe 5 - 6 seconds faster.

Randy is insanely fast any way you slice it, and I would describe his driving style as 'controlled chaos'. Pretty much about to lose it everywhere on track. :) In fact that is exactly it; his driving is a constant cycle of losing & catching the car, while laughing and carrying on a conversation. Amazing.
 

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Like you said, even with insane pressures, they still chunk. Actually, the higher pressure makes the contact patch even smaller because of the tire "crowning" and so you will get even more of the greasiness that causes the low speed understeer Randy was experiencing. This is also what causes the chunking - the tires skipping laterally while understeering and it tears the outside of the tear up.

You need 18" wheels with stiff sidewall tires (like RE-71R) and more camber in the front (~2-2.5 deg negative).

It's too bad the cheap Cup 2s ($105/ea) are gone now - I only bought a dozen and wish I had bought a ton more.

Obviously I'm no Randy but with VSA off, you can induce some very nice throttle lift oversteer to rotate the car. Works well for decreasing radius corners, but obviously not so much for hairpins or corners where you are heavy on the brakes coming in, which is probably what he is referring to.

What kind of times was Randy running?
 
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djhartm

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Like you said, even with insane pressures, they still chunk. Actually, the higher pressure makes the contact patch even smaller because of the tire "crowning" and so you will get even more of the greasiness that causes the low speed understeer Randy was experiencing. This is also what causes the chunking - the tires skipping laterally while understeering and it tears the outside of the tear up.

You need 18" wheels with stiff sidewall tires (like RE-71R) and more camber in the front (~2-2.5 deg negative).

It's too bad the cheap Cup 2s ($105/ea) are gone now - I only bought a dozen and wish I had bought a ton more.

Obviously I'm no Randy but with VSA off, you can induce some very nice throttle lift oversteer to rotate the car. Works well for decreasing radius corners, but obviously not so much for hairpins or corners where you are heavy on the brakes coming in, which is probably what he is referring to.

What kind of times was Randy running?
My rollover\chunking experience has always been the result of running lower pressures. Cup 2 for instance generally operate in a sweet spot of 34 - 36 PSI HOT. When I ran those pressures, the Contis and the Cup 2s where destroyed in 1 day. Even adjusting driving style (less entry speed, no curbing) did not help much.

The rears are pretty much bulletproof & I run those at 33 PSI cold.

Running the fronts that high prevents rollover & chunking, but the grip goes out the window. Low speed corners like T2 & T11/T12 aka Oak Tree at VIR is where you have to crawl through because there is no front end grip.

Randy said he was going to ask his Honda engineer friend about it and report back. But like others have said, the answer is wider 18" wheels with more camber & a stiffer rear bar for rotation. Really surprised these changes weren't baked into the 2020 model year, but those that track their cars probably make up a very small customer base.

I had no data acquisition, and since Randy was running hot laps, then letting the car cool, then running hot lap, what my fiancee captured wasn't accurate.

I'm waiting on his Caymen lap data which I will post shortly. I will say I tried to catch Randy while he was driving my friend's Caymen, and that was an epic fail. :)

Randy was mainly getting the car to rotate with heavy trail braking & aggressive steering inputs. My friend said he was left foot braking, but I forgot to watch his footwork. Mea culpa. But I definitely cannot left foot brake.
 


 


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