Questioning Both Coupe and Sedan Si Variants

[randY49]

1) Regardless of if Honda makes an SI hatchback or not, the Hatchback will be more expensive than the Sedan/Coupe. Every automaker who makes both sedans and hatch variants of the same model does this. The hatch is considered roomier and more "premium." From the Versa/Versa Note, Fiesta/Fiesta Hatch, Focus/Focus Hatch, Elantra/ElantraGT, Forte/Forte5 and on up. Hatches always cost more. A Golf has ALWAYS cost more than the Jetta, at least in recent generations.

So we already know to expect to pay more for any hatch variant, rather its produced in Europe, the US or Mexico. You can bet if Honda brings over the "City" it will be cheaper than the Fit is as well. That's just how the market works...and that's why it makes sense that Honda is producing the Civic Hatch in Europe.

Also, Honda is utilizing the Euro plant for one very specific reason...to fill production capacity. The current Euro models do not sell well, so Honda going to max out production there by selling the next generation hatch in more markets to keep it going. Considering 45 percent of the Focus's sales are hatch models..and a good chunk of those are ST models, Honda would be foolish to ignore the market.

2) Shipping engines across the pond might seem very expensive but it's very duable. My Fusion, for example, was produced in Mexico but its engine, the 1.6t , was produced in Romania. They shipped them right on over to Mexico and to the US too, as some Fusions are built in Michigan.

Besides, if the Civic Hatchback is coming to the states, Honda is going to be selling various trim levels, models and engine choices. I'd wager that the 1.5t will most definitely be available for us as well as in Europe. I question rather they will do the 2.0 base engine though, since it probably would not be a big seller in Europe, but it could be a good seller in the US. Ditto the SI's engine. If it turns out the SI gets a high-po 1.5t, no doubt we'll see an SI hatch, if its a 2.0t, we still stand a very good chance of seeing it. Honda will have to import all those powerplants over to Europe regardless, right? So it's not going to make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

3) Also, in the "pocket rocket" class that the new Civic will be competing with, two of the best rated vehicles in that class are hatches....the Golf GTI and Focus ST. Honda has done well having the SI in sedan and coupe form...but it would be kinda stupid of them to ignore the body type most folks in that class by...a hatchback. And besides the ORIGINAL Civic SI was a hatchback anyway and the only reason we haven't seen more hatchback Civics is because Honda refused to sell any of them after the terrible Gen 7.

1) I was talking specifically about the Si, as that is what was asked about originally.
2) I didn't say it wasn't doable, I said it would cost more. The post I was replying to made mention that it wouldn't cost more to offer an Si in every body type. Do you work for Honda? If so, please tell us everything about the hatch, but if that's not the case, I'll wait to hear from official sources that there will be multiple trim levels, models, and engine choices.
3) I'm well aware of Si history, but the original was also a three-door hatch, not a five-door. My guess is that Honda stopped selling the hatchback because consumers didn't buy enough of them, not because the 7th-generation was "terrible".

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[Regi_Derrick]

1) I was talking specifically about the Si, as that is what was asked about originally.
2) I didn't say it wasn't doable, I said it would cost more. The post I was replying to made mention that it wouldn't cost more to offer an Si in every body type. Do you work for Honda? If so, please tell us everything about the hatch, but if that's not the case, I'll wait to hear from official sources that there will be multiple trim levels, models, and engine choices.
3) I'm well aware of Si history, but the original was also a three-door hatch, not a five-door. My guess is that Honda stopped selling the hatchback because consumers didn't buy enough of them, not because the 7th-generation was "terrible".

1) I never implied that you said it wasn't doable. I simply pointed out that hatchbacks already carry a premium, which will in some way negate the extra cost of shipping from Europe for most consumers. If Honda can begin to import Fits again from Japan and keep the car's cost relatively low, I think Honda can do the same for the hatchback, SI or otherwise.

2) No I don't work for Honda, as a matter of fact, since August of last year I haven't even owned one. But I am a Honda enthusiasts and have owned 3 Accords in the past. This new Civic has rekindled my interest in Honda. I was absolutely DONE with Honda when the 9th gen Accord sedan debuted and Canada got the Touring I4 with a 6mt and the US didn't. So, I found an alternative that has been awesome so far. My Fusion 1.6t 6spd manual. It's about as loaded as an Accord Touring would be but with a stick shift. Leather, sunroof, navigation. I love it. Also, considering that the Civic Hatchback is probably about a year away from launch, even if I did work for Honda, I probably would not know all the details as of yet. I get tickled by folks who get all hyped up about these "spy shots" of the frankenstein ILX/Euro Civic we keep seeing. The new hatch will not look like that at all. John Mendel (or one of the Honda execs) has already said that the new global Civics will all share the same front fascia. BUT, considering Honda is a car company that has to compete with other car companies that also offer hatch models, with various trim levels and various engine options. I don't think it's too far fetched to assume that perhaps Honda will offer the hatchback in the same trim levels as the coupe and sedan. Seems quite logical...but like you, I'm only speculating. Since the hatch will come in at a premium over the sedan/coupe. I wouldn't be surprised though if they skipped the LX trim and offered EX, Ex-L and Touring (and Si models) since most hatchbacks don't offer the base trim level that their sedan counterparts do. It's all my speculation and my sole awareness of the marketplace of course .

3) I am pretty sure you're aware of the Civic and particularly the Civic SI's history (I never questioned that LOL) but considering the 6th gen SI wasn't even offered in Hatchback form (or any trim level for that matter) and was a huge hit, it was remarkable that Honda even offered the 7th gen in hatch form only..and it was an instant flop! It straight out the gate FLOPPED and this was going on in a time when the pocket rocket market was beginning to take off. When Ford had the Focus 5door and SVT models. Even the lowly Elantra GT was doing well That's my point of why we haven't seen a Civic Hatchback since. Honda's little experiment with the 7th gen was not successful so they abandoned a market that was taking off. That's Honda's fault, not the markets, because clearly other automakers have been quite successful as of late with hatches and Hondas getting back into the market.,..late as hell, but they're finally coming back. The market has been BOOMING for hatchbacks in the compact class since. Sales are flat for the compact car market as a whole, but imagine how much worse they'd be now if hatches weren't offered at all? 45 percent of Focus sales are hatchbacks. The Golf and the GTI right now are neck and neck for sales for the year and that will only increase for the GTI since VW has diesel-gate to deal with.

Obviously when the 8th came around Honda evolved again and offered the SI in coupe and sedan forms and they both did very very well but considering they didn't think the market for hatches was strong enough in Civic's class and the previous generation hatch SI was a FLOP, Honda didn't offer a hatchback at all. By this current generation, hatchbacks are pretty common in Civic's class. Elantra, Forte, Focus,Impreza, Golf were all selling in significant numbers in hatchback form. A real missed opportunity for Honda, and one that Honda has admitted on a few occasions. So, we all know that the SI has evolved several times. It's time for some more evolution. There is obviously a market for the hatch, and even more obviously a market for a Civic SI hatch. Sales in the compact car class are leveling off or declining due to crossovers, and yet Honda is going to need to sale as many Civics as possible, especially those coming out of Europe, to meet the plant's capacity and keep it running. It's a win win. Want more Civic sales=offer more of what the competition is selling, and selling successfully. You need no more proof than the Focus ST and Golf GTI for that.

Why go thru the whole task of importing the Civic Hatchback, selling it in the US, but not even offering it in SI trim, when all of the major competition (sans the Impreza) have Hi-Po and Super Hi-Po hatchback versions available...and hatchback buyers tend to be more of the 'enthusiasts' types as well? If Ford and VW can offer Golf GTI/Golf Rs and Focus STs/RSs, surely Honda can offer the Civic hatch in SI form and Type R form. Afterall, back in the 80s and 90s it was Honda that ruled the pocket rocket scene and Honda has been bending over backwards going on and on about how this will be the "sportiest" Civic ever. Wanna prove it? Offer those of us who cannot (or will not) buy a Civic Type R, a hatchback Civic SI. Would be lovely to see it compared to the GTI and Focus ST.

We deserve a Civic SI hatch in the US this go round...just hope Honda is smart enough to offer it

 

[Tuttle]

Why go thru the whole task of importing the Civic Hatchback, selling it in the US, but not even offering it in SI trim, when all of the major competition (sans the Impreza) have Hi-Po and Super Hi-Po hatchback versions available...and hatchback buyers tend to be more of the 'enthusiasts' types as well? If Ford and VW can offer Golf GTI/Golf Rs and Focus STs/RSs, surely Honda can offer the Civic hatch in SI form and Type R form. Afterall, back in the 80s and 90s it was Honda that ruled the pocket rocket scene and Honda has been bending over backwards going on and on about how this will be the "sportiest" Civic ever. Wanna prove it? Offer those of us who cannot (or will not) buy a Civic Type R, a hatchback Civic SI. Would be lovely to see it compared to the GTI and Focus ST.

We deserve a Civic SI hatch in the US this go round...just hope Honda is smart enough to offer it

Woa that's a lot of text I agree with what you're saying here. Hatchback buyers tend to be on average more of the enthusiast crowd. Compared to the VW and Focus, the Civic sells in way more volume as a whole. I admit to not knowing if the Si sells in proportionally large volume compared to the hipo versions from VW and Ford but I imagine it should still be higher numbers. Point being if other companies bean counters can make the numbers work I don't see why Honda can't. It's really long overdue bringing some cool performance hatchbacks to the US.

 

[martyr]

Woa that's a lot of text I agree with what you're saying here. Hatchback buyers tend to be on average more of the enthusiast crowd. Compared to the VW and Focus, the Civic sells in way more volume as a whole. I admit to not knowing if the Si sells in proportionally large volume compared to the hipo versions from VW and Ford but I imagine it should still be higher numbers. Point being if other companies bean counters can make the numbers work I don't see why Honda can't. It's really long overdue bringing some cool performance hatchbacks to the US.

Maybe Honda is worried about hatchback perception in the US still? Civic Si has been on the coupe and sedan for a while now so it's well known and accepted. But the Civic hatchback hasn't been here for a while and hatchbacks also have traditionally been viewed as 'economy' and 'budget' in this market, so maybe Honda is afraid people still won't pay more money for a performance hatchback and that low sales from an already small hot hatch market isn't worth the costs of outfitting the hatchback in Si form? This is all assuming they don't actually make an Si hatch of course!

 

[Design]

There's not a strong market for the hatch with fuel prices the way they are. In Europe and the UK it's a completely different story.

I would be very surprised if we weren't offered an Si Sedan here in the US.

 

[LBB]

The latest press releases from Honda announcing the market launch of the sedan on the 12th and the coupe reveal at the LA show both continue to say:

"...will include a sedan, coupe, high-performance Si models, a 5-door hatchback and the first-ever Civic Type-R model for the U.S. market, comprising the most diverse and innovative lineup in Civic's 43-year history."

Leads me to believe there'll be an Si Coupe and Si Sedan at least. And maybe even Si Hatch. It's clear Honda is extremely ambitious with this 10th gen, re-introducing the hatchback to the US and the Type R in the US for the first time. So wouldn't be surprised if they roll out Si models for all 3 body variations.

 

[Shortbus]

The latest press releases from Honda announcing the market launch of the sedan on the 12th and the coupe reveal at the LA show both continue to say:

"...will include a sedan, coupe, high-performance Si models, a 5-door hatchback and the first-ever Civic Type-R model for the U.S. market, comprising the most diverse and innovative lineup in Civic's 43-year history."

Leads me to believe there'll be an Si Coupe and Si Sedan at least. And maybe even Si Hatch. It's clear Honda is extremely ambitious with this 10th gen, re-introducing the hatchback to the US and the Type R in the US for the first time. So wouldn't be surprised if they roll out Si models for all 3 body variations.

There's been a lot of talk here about how if the Si started stepping on the next Type R's toes. One way they could differentiate the different modes and prevent this is by offering the Si in only coupe and sedan form and Type R in only hatchback form. Will make some people upset who might want a Si hatch or Type R coupe/sedan but it may help protect sales of both Si and Type R and prevent cannibalizing.

 

[BakedTuna]

There's been a lot of talk here about how if the Si started stepping on the next Type R's toes. One way they could differentiate the different modes and prevent this is by offering the Si in only coupe and sedan form and Type R in only hatchback form. Will make some people upset who might want a Si hatch or Type R coupe/sedan but it may help protect sales of both Si and Type R and prevent cannibalizing.

Think you got it right. I have long thought this would be the route they will take.

 

[RSXer]

There's been a lot of talk here about how if the Si started stepping on the next Type R's toes. One way they could differentiate the different modes and prevent this is by offering the Si in only coupe and sedan form and Type R in only hatchback form. Will make some people upset who might want a Si hatch or Type R coupe/sedan but it may help protect sales of both Si and Type R and prevent cannibalizing.

Cannibalization is only bad (from Honda's perspective) if it leads to less sales and profit. Making more versions of each body type like an Si hatch and Type R coupe can only lead to more sales overall and success for this new generation, no?

 

[takemorepills]

There's been a lot of talk here about how if the Si started stepping on the next Type R's toes. One way they could differentiate the different modes and prevent this is by offering the Si in only coupe and sedan form and Type R in only hatchback form. Will make some people upset who might want a Si hatch or Type R coupe/sedan but it may help protect sales of both Si and Type R and prevent cannibalizing.

I just confirmed your speculation. On the Honda website: http://automobiles.honda.com/10th-gen-civic/ There's a place to sign up for more CivicX info. If you go to the link it will be easier to follow what I'm saying. I selected more info for "Civic Si", "Civic 5 Door" and "Civic Type R" and received an automated email response from Honda:


Thanks for signing up.

Keep an eye on your inbox. We'll soon deliver more of what interests you about
Honda, including the latest news, events, site features, vehicle updates and
launch information.

• Your current e-mail subscriptions:
  Civic 5-Door
  Civic Si Coupe
  Civic Si Sedan
  Civic Type R

So, for SURE the Si is going to be available in coupe and sedan, especially since I only selected "Civic Si" info from the sign up form and the auto response was split for a sedan and coupe! And I would bet money the Type R is only available in 5 door.

What do you guys think? I think it is damn certain info

 

[serif]

That's a good catch!

 

[Xtreme Thunder]

As the OP, good catch, I thought I signed up for updates, but don't recall an e-mail of such, unless that has been added post inquiry.

I'm glad to see the Sedan Si live on, at least in respect to that 'news updates e-mail' from Honda posted above.

I currently have a 2007 Civic Si Sedan, purchased new 09/2007 and currently only has 93.5K miles, so still a baby. May have to keep it around. Possibly interested in a new vehicle in the next 18-24 months, but would need to be a 4 door. I now wait for the Si Sedan variant and powertrain options.

 

[Whoosh]

Anyone know if Si sedans or Si coupes sell in bigger numbers?

 

[C Note]

I don't think Honda breaks out those numbers when reporting. I've always just seen an overall Civic sales number. From just what I see on the street, I would guess there's more Si coupe sold.

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