Put an END to the Dealer Naughty List

[jtrown]

A lot of great posts and for the most part something I knew would happen as a dose of reality. There's just a great deal of folks here and probably myself included that aren't going to get close enough to own theses cars. I have a grand down at a dealership with the understanding that the car will be over 40k out the door. My concern is with the limited production run and the lack of an MSRP even this late in 17 the price tag will jump well over 45k. I've planned to put down at least 6k but honestly now, I don't know it will be enough because 45 is past my limit.

Honda most surely will not interfere with what a dealer sells the car for, and as I said before the limited production run only helps drive the price sky high. You can take it to the bank dealers will never trade an R to other dealerships because the car is a cash cow a will eventually sell for the ADM.
Congrats to anyone who actually gets to park their a$$ in the seat of the R as most of us will simply watch and drool from a distance. It's not the end of the world...... it just seems like it.

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[Banshee]

When all this relates to ADM, I am saying that there will be more people willing to fork out a $5-10k ADM on the type R as compared to Focus RS due to the long history and tradition of the brand and culture.

Fast and furious never debut a Focus but plenty of civics. Popularity will overtake ADM

I agree. But I don't buy my cars because it was in a movie, however, I don't doubt that some kids will. Looking at the heritage and capabilities of a car does provide a selling point. Porsche, Ferrari, Mclaren all have some heritage, and a 5-10k markup won't stop serious buyers for higher end machines. But one case of 25K ADM, is WAAAY out there.
Also, maybe having ADM isn't all bad, might keep buyers from getting the car just to turn a profit for exclusivity.

 

[xpimpindistressx]

I agree. But I don't buy my cars because it was in a movie, however, I don't doubt that some kids will. Looking at the heritage and capabilities of a car does provide a selling point. Porsche, Ferrari, Mclaren all have some heritage, and a 5-10k markup won't stop serious buyers for higher end machines. But one case of 25K ADM, is WAAAY out there.
Also, maybe having ADM isn't all bad, might keep buyers from getting the car just to turn a profit for exclusivity.

See the guy selling his CTR for 85k? Crazyyyyyyy

 

[erbee]

Gotta love these salespersons poping up everywhere lately .

 

[CTRKevin]

My answer from Honda Customer Service's twitter:

Hello Kevin, thank you for writing to us. Honda Dealerships are independently owned businesses in charge of their own daily operation including but not limited to the sales and service provided. Every dealership sets its own prices. We hope this helps. If you have any other questions please don’t hesitate to reach out to us. ^WD

 

[Vaders CTR]

No one buys cars as an investment.

99% of the time that would be correct. I have owned my own car dealership and watched clients buy and sell cars and make money. Have I bought vehicles personally and sold them to make money? Yes, I have. I would say, that cars as an investment is very, very, risky more so than any other type of investment(s). Certainly some cars CAN be an investment. It takes someone to know the market and buy the right vehicle with the correct pedigree to make big money on a car/vehicle. As someone mentioned, normally this could take 20-25 years or more.

Could the CTR be a collectable? Possibly, but not to the extent you have with the 60's muscle cars even to the most current Porsche 911 GT3RS (I could explain why values are increasing on 80's-90's cars and dropping on the 60's and 70's cars, but way off topic). Those cars are selling privately for $100-200k more than MSRP. That is an investment. The 2005-2006 Ford GT's? You bet. Those cars listed for $150k when new and sold for $200k ($50K ADM). Now you can buy one for $300-$400k privately, from a dealer, or at an auction. If it is a heritage car, big money. Why have the prices increased? The new Ford GT starts at $450k. Notice, that these examples are not sub $40k cars.

Buy the CTR to enjoy it as Honda intended. If luck shines on the owners' in the years to come where the original body CTR in the US is the most desirable, congrats! Otherwise, don't worry about anything you cannot control, just enjoy it for what the CTR is as I intend on doing.

As for the thread topic: I would not want to end the thread for the dealer naughty list. It is helpful for the community. Keep in mind, you do not have to do anything you do not want to do. If MSRP is what you want to pay, find a dealer that will sell it for that. The thread steers you away from wasting time with the dealers that want ADM. If Honda releases the MSRP (whenever they do) and it is out of reach, then wait for a used one or when they aren't in as much demand.

I am just glad they finally brought it to the US.

 

[RODSCIVIC]

No one buys cars as an investment. The ITR is merely to show people that the "type R" tradition is strong till now. But I can say that even me paying the $5k ADM on my CTR is a much smarter decision than another shopper paying $1k below msrp for a Honda Accord. Because in the long run, my CTR will depreciate much lower than any "common" car will which in return will benefit me more if i choose to resale.

And yes, we don't have any clue how many CTR honda will make but we can assume based upon history, it will be very limited.

PEOPLE NEED TO STOP COMPARING OUR CTR TO FOCUS RS. Ford in general is always been a POS company with POS cars. That reputation alone is a huge factor as to why all their Focus RS sold with ADM are now sitting on the lot collecting dust. Very different cars from very different manufacturers with very different reputation that will all be influence on how well this car does on open market.

There are cars outside of Japan with tradition which include the RS....just a Focus? The same Focus that kicks the crap out of an SI? Here is Tradition:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...r-ford-rs-cars-that-came-before-the-focus-rs/

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/86939/ford-rs-a-history-of-the-fastest-fords-escort-to-focus

Take the time to educate yourself, the TypeR isn't the only one with "tradition"

This isn't the same TypeR that the Integra was, it's not built in Japan, it's not a sleeper, and it's not in a market where there are no other options. Don't bash other cars to put the CTR on a pedestal, it's not necessary, the CTR stands in it's own category. You paid ADM and are happy with your purchase, that's all that matters. The rest of us don't agree with ADM, simply because $5k turns into $10K and so on.

The "limited" has been thrown around for so many years, but what truly is "limited"? 3000, 4000, 5000?

 

[RODSCIVIC]

99% of the time that would be correct. I have owned my own car dealership and watched clients buy and sell cars and make money. Have I bought vehicles personally and sold them to make money? Yes, I have. I would say, that cars as an investment is very, very, risky more so than any other type of investment(s). Certainly some cars CAN be an investment. It takes someone to know the market and buy the right vehicle with the correct pedigree to make big money on a car/vehicle. As someone mentioned, normally this could take 20-25 years or more.

Could the CTR be a collectable? Possibly, but not to the extent you have with the 60's muscle cars even to the most current Porsche 911 GT3RS (I could explain why values are increasing on 80's-90's cars and dropping on the 60's and 70's cars, but way off topic). Those cars are selling privately for $100-200k more than MSRP. That is an investment. The 2005-2006 Ford GT's? You bet. Those cars listed for $150k when new and sold for $200k ($50K ADM). Now you can buy one for $300-$400k privately, from a dealer, or at an auction. If it is a heritage car, big money. Why have the prices increased? The new Ford GT starts at $450k. Notice, that these examples are not sub $40k cars.

Buy the CTR to enjoy it as Honda intended. If luck shines on the owners' in the years to come where the original body CTR in the US is the most desirable, congrats! Otherwise, don't worry about anything you cannot control, just enjoy it for what the CTR is as I intend on doing.

As for the thread topic: I would not want to end the thread for the dealer naughty list. It is helpful for the community. Keep in mind, you do not have to do anything you do not want to do. If MSRP is what you want to pay, find a dealer that will sell it for that. The thread steers you away from wasting time with the dealers that want ADM. If Honda releases the MSRP (whenever they do) and it is out of reach, then wait for a used one or when they aren't in as much demand.

I am just glad they finally brought it to the US.

I guess this is what aggravates me the most with ADM, like when Nike releases shoes. Collectors buy them so they can resell to those of us who will use them and we end up paying more. But again free market and I understand. I still am of the belief that Auto Manufacturers should only do special orders through them for these type of cars. Just my opinion.

BTW, I got the same response from Honda. Go kick rocks...lol

 

[Dr_Drache]

could we just facebook the list? and tag everyone? it works for other stuff...

 

[Type-JZ]

Guys/gals,
This is nothing new. This stuff happens daily! Like others have said, supply & demand and who will be willing to pay. To the majority of us, including myself, 35-40k is a lot. Hate to break your heart, but there's also tons of people w/ kids that says 40-50k is pocket change. If you don't buy it, someone will! Simple. End of story.
Furthermore, as a business, you want to make revenue. What do you think gauges success in a business? Do you think it's good ethics? lol
Most dealers list their new cars above MSRP as a standard.
Sorry, 99.99% chance Honda will NOT do anything bout this matter. As a matter of fact, this makes Honda look good. People going crazy and shelling out over retail for a Civic(yes, i know, not just any Civic. But end of the day, it's still a Civic to most people).
Let's not forget, we're talking about ONE car. We should all sit back and look at the overall picture and ask ourselves; how many cars does Honda sell per year? It's highly unlikely, they'll take 1 niche car and change the business world.

But, there could be a chance! If you're powerful enough to change every individual on this forum to hold back and not buy the CTR more than MSRP. Remember that villain in Jessica Jones? Kilgrave! Mind control everyone to wait it out until dealers drop their price back to MSRP. Better yet, we all wait until '18MY comes out before any purchases. Have the CTR flood dealers lots. I suggested a petition to not buy over MSRP on another thread..lol. But then, what are you going to do about the people not on this forum?

 

[RODSCIVIC]

Good luck on waiting for Type R. All 2017 and 2018 are all spoken for

lol....kids these days.....

 

[HondaFan2017]

Guys/gals,
But, there could be a chance! If you're powerful enough to change every individual on this forum to hold back and not buy the CTR more than MSRP. Remember that villain in Jessica Jones? Kilgrave! Mind control everyone to wait it out until dealers drop their price back to MSRP. Better yet, we all wait until '18MY comes out before any purchases. Have the CTR flood dealers lots. I suggested a petition to not buy over MSRP on another thread..lol. But then, what are you going to do about the people not on this forum?

I managed to change my mind even more (due in part to opinions on this forum) by considering other alternatives also.
How? This long Type R soap opera simply provided me with more reflection time. Now I even try to figure out if worth buying at MSRP or holding off for smth else (perhaps a bit even more pricey - I know tastes are subjective). I am a fan of Honda brand yes ...but when it comes to spending I'm the fan of the $.

Honda wanted to build hype perhaps. But it seems they managed to bore/turn off some potential customers with this lack of info. They should have at least organized some press drive tests to show them/public the car in real life. Lots of brands hold these press events even months before car is in showrooms. Instead of this superior attitude.

 

[RODSCIVIC]

That's enough. This type of discussion is neither helpful nor productive.

Yup, I apologize. Back to hunting down a non ADM in So Cal.

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

ADM IS NECESSARY TO KEEP THE VALUE OF THE CTR!

ADDED ADM is essentially putting "market value" on the CTR. Even thought Honda says CTR should be sold @ $35k, the rest of the world disagrees, and that is why we have ADM. This ADM will and should benefit CTR owners later on when they do decide to part from their cars to private buyers.

Don't believe me? Look at http://hooniverse.com/2015/04/15/97-acura-integra-type-r-sells-for-43300/

Honda has done a excellent job keeping the Type R line very exclusive to consumers. This itself jacks the prices up on the car. So just like buying real estate, the asking price of a home isn't always the correct price to go by, its merely a "baseline" to see where the market will settle.

So KUDOS to all you guys who have done-deals at dealerships selling to you for MSRP because you guys are actually buying this car for "UNDER MARKET VALUE"

People are just bitching because honda set the "Baseline" @ $35k and not $40k or $45k when in reality peoples' "PERCEPTION OF VALUE" for this car is already set between $35k-$45k

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AS for those people who think they can just WAIT and get this in 2018 or 2019 for cheaper, you are kidding yourself. Dealerships for a wait list with deposits up the WOooHA. So if the CTR is your way of life, the best thing to do in this situation is to find a dealership who is willing to commit to you and either pay the ADM or MSRP and get it done with and just ENJOY the car everyone else is dying to have!

Important to note- this whole ADM thing is pretty unique to the US. Illegal in Canada, directly-sold in most of Europe, not sure about Japan...so no. The rest of the world knows exactly what they'll pay. It's only here that the dealer can decide on the price.

 

[Froggie3kb]

I called and Honda Consumer Affairs and they said the dealers are all independent and can choose what ever price they see fit. But Honda motor corporation financing said they will not finance more than msrp +tax +title. They said if the dealer is charging more? The overpayment will need to be another form of payment. Called 3 other main financing banks all said the same thing. AllState Insurance said they go by book value on replacement or msrp if the vehicle is new. Any overpayment is basicly under the table money.

I can say with 1,000% certainty... That statement in regards to Honda Finance is 100% incorrect. I've been an F&I manager with Honda Finance for a little over 10 years now and they will cover more than MSRP any day of the week aside from taxes / tag etc. If that wasn't the case then you would have people having to fork out money to cover dealer fees, accessories, back-end products like GAP insurance, warranty, negative equity on a trade and the list goes on...

The only time Honda Finance will alter that dollar amount and possibly not cover a lot of those extras is when you have a "conditional approval" due to limited credit history or has had a few hiccups so-to-say with their credit and ends up capping it with what's called a total contract call for X amount. That's the only time Honda Finance will step in and possibly not cover MSRP+.

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