Put an END to the Dealer Naughty List

[Wheel_Guy]

Didn't Honda just go through this with the NSX collecting dust at dealerships because these clowns wanted to charge $20k ADM?

If Honda is seen as retaliating toward a dealer for their "pricing" this is against the law. It happens, but it isn't supposed to.

I think the problem with the NSX isn't that dealers are charging ADM, it's that the MSRP is just too damn high. I can see the NSX as a fantastic $135K car topping out fully optioned at $150K. Starting at $155K and regularly sitting on dealer lots with a $225K sticker price is insane. Maybe even if it topped out at $175K that would make sense. The car may be super expensive to make and it may deliver on performance, but it just doesn't have the cache' of a $225K car. I've driven it on the street and I've ridden in it on the track (driven by people a lot faster than me) so it delivers on the performance for sure, but for $225K it is missing that visceral "soul" that other cars in that range bring to the table.

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[RODSCIVIC]

If Honda is seen as retaliating toward a dealer for their "pricing" this is against the law. It happens, but it isn't supposed to.

I think the problem with the NSX isn't that dealers are charging ADM, it's that the MSRP is just too damn high. I can see the NSX as a fantastic $135K car topping out fully optioned at $150K. Starting at $155K and regularly sitting on dealer lots with a $225K sticker price is insane. Maybe even if it topped out at $175K that would make sense. The car may be super expensive to make and it may deliver on performance, but it just doesn't have the cache' of a $225K car. I've driven it on the street and I've ridden in it on the track (driven by people a lot faster than me) so it delivers on the performance for sure, but for $225K it is missing that visceral "soul" that other cars in that range bring to the table.

Dodge did it with the Hellcat, shouldn't be a problem for Honda to do it. I guess my point in all this is that the dealer will make their money regardless, ADM is just plain greed.

That's pretty bad. Can you imagine if the TypeR runs into the same problem with pricing vs. performance? I doubt it will just by reading reviews on the Civic Hatch as far as handling. We just have to wait and see.

 

[JYR]

If Honda is seen as retaliating toward a dealer for their "pricing" this is against the law. It happens, but it isn't supposed to.

I think the problem with the NSX isn't that dealers are charging ADM, it's that the MSRP is just too damn high. I can see the NSX as a fantastic $135K car topping out fully optioned at $150K. Starting at $155K and regularly sitting on dealer lots with a $225K sticker price is insane. Maybe even if it topped out at $175K that would make sense. The car may be super expensive to make and it may deliver on performance, but it just doesn't have the cache' of a $225K car. I've driven it on the street and I've ridden in it on the track (driven by people a lot faster than me) so it delivers on the performance for sure, but for $225K it is missing that visceral "soul" that other cars in that range bring to the table.

Bingo.

At $225k, you are in a market that brings a lot of vehicles to table.

And the same thing has been said about the MSRP of the R. At $37k, there is a LOT of competition what considering what $37k will buy you.

 

[HondaPro]

I called and Honda Consumer Affairs and they said the dealers are all independent and can choose what ever price they see fit. But Honda motor corporation financing said they will not finance more than msrp +tax +title. They said if the dealer is charging more? The overpayment will need to be another form of payment. Called 3 other main financing banks all said the same thing. AllState Insurance said they go by book value on replacement or msrp if the vehicle is new. Any overpayment is basicly under the table money.

 

[JYR]

I called and Honda Consumer Affairs and they said the dealers are all independent and can choose what ever price they see fit. But Honda motor corporation financing said they will not finance more than msrp +tax +title. They said if the dealer is charging more? The overpayment will need to be another form of payment. Called 3 other main financing banks all said the same thing. AllState Insurance said they go by book value on replacement or msrp if the vehicle is new. Any overpayment is basicly under the table money.

Ha, horseshit.

 

[jdmk20akid]

Ha, horseshit.

I agree, Honda finance will definitely finance over msrp. Think about if someone wanted to purchase warranty and products on the back end? They would have to finance over msrp for that. But it will be interesting to see if Honda holds up on that promise, I doubt it but it will interesting to see how that would pan out. I'll call our regional American Honda Finance Rep and try to confirm this!

 

[erbee]

I called and Honda Consumer Affairs and they said the dealers are all independent and can choose what ever price they see fit. But Honda motor corporation financing said they will not finance more than msrp +tax +title. They said if the dealer is charging more? The overpayment will need to be another form of payment. Called 3 other main financing banks all said the same thing. AllState Insurance said they go by book value on replacement or msrp if the vehicle is new. Any overpayment is basicly under the table money.

I can already foreseen Manheim will have bunch of repo CTR in the future.

 

[CivicNut1109]

I know up here in Canada its illegal for the Honda dealers to charge any cent above MSRP

 

[Wheel_Guy]

Bingo.

At $225k, you are in a market that brings a lot of vehicles to table.

And the same thing has been said about the MSRP of the R. At $37k, there is a LOT of competition what considering what $37k will buy you.

I guess for me I'm not seeing much in the $37K range that I would buy, but in the end, I'm also comfortable paying $40K MSRP for the CTR just because it's a CTR and I'm a Honda guy. Expensive for a Civic? Sure. Would I turn around and buy a Focus RS instead? Nope. If I wanted an RS, I would have already bought an RS and arguments about which is better don't matter to me.

The CTR is going to deliver on its promise and given its stature within the Honda brand, it's the car I want. I made the mistake of passing on the Integra Type R years ago. I thought the wing and red interior were ridiculous. I won't make that mistake again. This CTR not only blows that away, but it gives me everything I need to fill my car-guy soul as well as the perfect DD for an old dude with 2 little kids.

Now that's talking MSRP. If it turns out to be $40K out the door, I'm in. If it is more. I'm still in. I will pay MSRP. If it were $50K, then I'd be scratching my head and wait until they were going for a discount because few would pay that as the value proposition is just really bad. I'm fine with a high MSRP but I won't pay more than MSRP just to have it early. Some people will. That's fine and their choice.

 

[ayau]

As much as I hate to admit it, there is nothing that Honda is going to do about the situation. There are laws in effect that protect dealerships so that they can control the market, and customers have to purchase vehicles through authorized dealerships. There are pros to this as well as cons to this. And I will keep my opinions to myself about how many of pros and cons there are.

But the simple fact that remains that this situation was bound to happen. We all knew that it was going to happen, and now that its getting this close to launch we are treating it like its the craziest thing ever. It supply vs demand. A very understandable concept about this vehicle regardless of whether it was sold by dealerships or private party (if that was a thing for new cars). And it also doesn't surprise me that dealerships that once said that they will be at MSRP are changing their tone. Regional reps have gone to a tour of the Baltimore port and have come back telling dealerships about how many are going to be made, and how frequently we will be getting them in the states and its not looking good. Why else would dealerships start getting together and deciding on a change in ADM policy and/or buying one for themselves.

I'm not saying that I agree with ADM, because I most definitely don't. But I'm not surprised at all to see a manufacturer's SUGGESTED retail sales price, being over rule by an ADJUST MARKET VALUE due to it being limited and highly sought after. Whether we like it or not its going to happen. You have to pay to play. :/

Does an extra 5-10k make that much of a difference to a dealership? I realize it's essentially free money for literally no effort, but it negatively affects their reputation. Is that worth it? If we really wanted to, we could hurt the reputation of these ADM dealers through social media.

 

[ayau]

I think it's obvious but worth pointing out. People willing to accept ADM will never get that money back when they resell the car. This ADM is temporary, and once the demand goes down, these cars will be sold for MSRP or possibly less. Good luck telling your buyer that you paid X dollars over sticker when you decide to sell the car.

 

[Wheel_Guy]

Does an extra 5-10k make that much of a difference to a dealership? I realize it's essentially free money for literally no effort, but it negatively affects their reputation. Is that worth it? If we really wanted to, we could hurt the reputation of these ADM dealers through social media.

I think this is fairly common with higher value cars so any reputation hit would be very short-term. Honestly I commend those dealers not charging ADM (and one of them will get my business) but I don't hold anything against those that don't. I may not buy from them in the future, but I might. It all depends on the situation at that time. If anyone is to blame for ADM, I think it is all of us for buying into the hype.

 

[ayau]

I called and Honda Consumer Affairs and they said the dealers are all independent and can choose what ever price they see fit. But Honda motor corporation financing said they will not finance more than msrp +tax +title. They said if the dealer is charging more? The overpayment will need to be another form of payment. Called 3 other main financing banks all said the same thing. AllState Insurance said they go by book value on replacement or msrp if the vehicle is new. Any overpayment is basicly under the table money.

More reasons to not pay ADM.

 

[jdmk20akid]

I think this is fairly common with higher value cars so any reputation hit would be very short-term. Honestly I commend those dealers not charging ADM (and one of them will get my business) but I don't hold anything against those that don't. I may not buy from them in the future, but I might. It all depends on the situation at that time. If anyone is to blame for ADM, I think it is all of us for buying into the hype.

This is also correct. Customers are just as guilty for paying these ADM's, as a dealership is for charging them. If nobody ever paid the ADMs dealerships wouldn't charge them.

And as far as the 10-15k ADM profit being good for the dealership it is for sure. Again, I don't agree with them charging it, but it is nothing but profit to the dealership. I don't think any of us would turn down a free and easy $10k-15k for free. And while it may hurt the dealership image, it's very short term. 98% of that dealerships buyers couldn't care less about the CTR, or what the dealership is doing to price it out.

It sucks, but it's the truth. Again I think it's weird that we all saw this coming months ago, and are now acting surprised when we start actually seeing it happen.

Again, it's supply vs demand.

 

[ayau]

I agree, Honda finance will definitely finance over msrp. Think about if someone wanted to purchase warranty and products on the back end? They would have to finance over msrp for that. But it will be interesting to see if Honda holds up on that promise, I doubt it but it will interesting to see how that would pan out. I'll call our regional American Honda Finance Rep and try to confirm this!

I'd hope that for those who pay ADM, 5-10k is just play money to them. If getting approved for ADM financing is a deal breaker, then you have more important concerns.

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